LutherBurger
Squier-holic
This is sloppy work. I'm glad you're happy with what you have now, but I wouldn't be so quick to blame these components.
POTs Can destroy your sound
- Thread starter fadetoz
- Start date
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Afrika61
Squier-holic
Not exactly on topic but mentioning Probuckers made me think of this:
http://guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/7748/gibson-classic-stock-epiphone-humbucker
http://guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/7892/epiphone-57ch-analysis-review
http://guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/7755/gibson-57-classic-analysis-review
Something to think about anyway,.....
http://guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/7748/gibson-classic-stock-epiphone-humbucker
http://guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/7892/epiphone-57ch-analysis-review
http://guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/7755/gibson-57-classic-analysis-review
Something to think about anyway,.....
Bassman96
Squier-holic
I'm pretty sure the tone caps are supposed to be wired to ground and not lug 2 of the volume pots. That explains why the tone was changing with the volume sweep. I suspected as much.
Bassman96
Squier-holic
So it looks as though your guy was attempting this wiring. But he soldered the tone caps from lug 2 of tone to lug 2 of volume instead of lug 1 of volume. Not the components fault.
This is the wiring for it. That's why it doesn't look rite compared to your wiring diagram.
I wasn't quick to blame the pots at all. I tested them without tone controls as well.
I'm thrilled with it now though. Sounds amazing. Like I had hoped the first round.
Bassman96
Squier-holic
Where did you get that diagram? The way it is drawn up doesn't make sense. With the tone cap connected to both volume and tone lug 2 the capacitor is never bled to ground and is essentially open constantly and never feeds into either tone or volume inputs since it is connected to both those posts output lugs. Add to that the treble bleed that connects lugs 1&2 on the volume you have also now included the tone cap into the treble bleed via the lug 2 connection placing it in series with the bleed circuit significantly changing the values of that feature... Hence why the sweep and tone was so funky on the volume.
Basically that diagram is wrong and I can't see how it would work at all.
To be honest I have no idea. I know the treble bleed didn't work on that wiring for sure. I am curious as I have no idea where the diagram came from originally. Maybe my tech followed a bad wiring diagram. I have no idea. Like I said he has wired a ton of my stuff over the last couple years and I have never had an issue.
I will try those pots again next time I get a chance and see if wiring it with the standard wiring works. I will do it myself with these ones. I'm perfectly capable of doing it myself if I have to. As long as I have a wiring diagram. I guess I assumed it was wired correctly but I didn't even take a close look and just let my tech do what he does. If and when I get around to it I will definitely report back what I find. But this guitar is staying as is since it sounds perfect.
I appreciate you pointing the wiring out. I know there are tons of different ways to wire these and variations of each. I can't say 100% weather it is wrong or not but it is possible.
I will try those pots again next time I get a chance and see if wiring it with the standard wiring works. I will do it myself with these ones. I'm perfectly capable of doing it myself if I have to. As long as I have a wiring diagram. I guess I assumed it was wired correctly but I didn't even take a close look and just let my tech do what he does. If and when I get around to it I will definitely report back what I find. But this guitar is staying as is since it sounds perfect.
I appreciate you pointing the wiring out. I know there are tons of different ways to wire these and variations of each. I can't say 100% weather it is wrong or not but it is possible.
BTW @Bassman96 Looks like you live about an hr away from where I was born a raised.,. Kirkland, WA of course when I was a kid it was still Bothell, WA
Maybe next time I visit I'll have to look you up. I go back there every few years.
Maybe next time I visit I'll have to look you up. I go back there every few years.
Bassman96
Squier-holic
Jim Belaye
Squier-holic
You're right, my mistake it's A2. I corrected it.
mrriggs
Squier-Meister
That wiring scheme isn't "wrong", it's just an alternate way to wire a guitar with two volume knobs. The reason for it is so that when both pickups are selected you can turn one volume knob down without it killing both pickups. The downside, as fadetoz figured out, is that it drastically alters the taper of the pots.
Here's a plot of the two schemes to show the difference. Green is with the volume knob at 10, red is with the volume knob at 5, blue is with the volume knob at 1. Turning the knob to zero would of course kill all output. The solid lines show how it was wired (wiper to pickup). The dotted lines show what it would look like swapped around (wiper to switch). All calculations were done with the tone knob at 10.
The "light switch" taper is quite apparent as the solid blue line (volume knob at 1) is higher than the dotted red line (volume knob at 5). You can also see how it rolls off more high frequencies which is why it acted more like a tone knob than volume knob.
Here's a plot of the two schemes to show the difference. Green is with the volume knob at 10, red is with the volume knob at 5, blue is with the volume knob at 1. Turning the knob to zero would of course kill all output. The solid lines show how it was wired (wiper to pickup). The dotted lines show what it would look like swapped around (wiper to switch). All calculations were done with the tone knob at 10.
The "light switch" taper is quite apparent as the solid blue line (volume knob at 1) is higher than the dotted red line (volume knob at 5). You can also see how it rolls off more high frequencies which is why it acted more like a tone knob than volume knob.
That wiring scheme isn't "wrong", it's just an alternate way to wire a guitar with two volume knobs. The reason for it is so that when both pickups are selected you can turn one volume knob down without it killing both pickups. The downside, as fadetoz figured out, is that it drastically alters the taper of the pots.
Here's a plot of the two schemes to show the difference. Green is with the volume knob at 10, red is with the volume knob at 5, blue is with the volume knob at 1. Turning the knob to zero would of course kill all output. The solid lines show how it was wired (wiper to pickup). The dotted lines show what it would look like swapped around (wiper to switch). All calculations were done with the tone knob at 10.
The "light switch" taper is quite apparent as the solid blue line (volume knob at 1) is higher than the dotted red line (volume knob at 5). You can also see how it rolls off more high frequencies which is why it acted more like a tone knob than volume knob.
Thank you so much for taking the time to reply with that info @mrriggs
So the problem may just be because I had him wire it for 2 separate volumes? I'm getting those pots and trying them in a standard wiring layout as soon as I find a project. I would be thrilled to use them since they were not exactly cheap pots.
There are a few of us Washingtonians on here... I have lived in Iowa for many years now but I was born and grew up in the Seattle area and still consider it "My Home" state. This was suppose to be temporary for maybe 2 yrs. That was in 1993. I have a good job and family here so I just visit my dad and brother in Kirkland every 2 yrs.
Bassman96
Squier-holic
That wiring scheme isn't "wrong", it's just an alternate way to wire a guitar with two volume knobs. The reason for it is so that when both pickups are selected you can turn one volume knob down without it killing both pickups. The downside, as fadetoz figured out, is that it drastically alters the taper of the pots.
Here's a plot of the two schemes to show the difference. Green is with the volume knob at 10, red is with the volume knob at 5, blue is with the volume knob at 1. Turning the knob to zero would of course kill all output. The solid lines show how it was wired (wiper to pickup). The dotted lines show what it would look like swapped around (wiper to switch). All calculations were done with the tone knob at 10.
The "light switch" taper is quite apparent as the solid blue line (volume knob at 1) is higher than the dotted red line (volume knob at 5). You can also see how it rolls off more high frequencies which is why it acted more like a tone knob than volume knob.
Did you include the treble bleed in that? Likely a 150k resistor and what looks like a .0022uf cap in parallel between legs 1 and 2 of the volume. curious to see how much more that altered the response and sweep.
Also what program it equipment are you using to graph that? I have been meaning to look for such a thing just not sure where to begin.
mrriggs
Squier-Meister
Here it is with the treble bleed.
I'm using Excel to do the calculations and graphs. Convert all components to their 2-dimensional "Z" values (resitive & reactive) using the COMPLEX function. Then you can use basic voltage divider formulas. Convert your final answer back to a real number using the IMABS function. You can also use the IMARGUMENT function to see the phase shift (handy when working with feedback loops).
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so1om
Squier-Axpert
Here it is with the treble bleed.
I'm using Excel to do the calculations and graphs. Convert all components to their 2-dimensional "Z" values (resitive & reactive) using the COMPLEX function. Then you can use basic voltage divider formulas. Convert your final answer back to a real number using the IMABS function. You can also use the IMARGUMENT function to see the phase shift (handy when working with feedback loops).
but will you send us the file?
mrriggs
Squier-Meister
http://www.gofastforless.com/junk/CircuitEquations.xls
You'll need to enable macros and have the analysis toolpack installed.
Bassman96
Squier-holic
Here it is with the treble bleed.
I'm using Excel to do the calculations and graphs. Convert all components to their 2-dimensional "Z" values (resitive & reactive) using the COMPLEX function. Then you can use basic voltage divider formulas. Convert your final answer back to a real number using the IMABS function. You can also use the IMARGUMENT function to see the phase shift (handy when working with feedback loops).
Thanks for the info. Gotta get my excell skills back up to speed now lol.
That graph is striking. There is very little difference between vol at 10 ,5 and 1 with that configuration. Might as well be an on off switch at that point.
