Epiphone Les Paul Junior; upgrade or leave stock?

[sausagefingers]

I picked up another bargain buy (under bed instrument) the other day. Well actually 2 within a few weeks but it's this one I want to ask about.

It's a 2013 Epiphone Les Paul Junior in Ebony. Made in China but what isn't? I got it cheap enough to allow some mods. It is all stock as from factory with the Epi 700T open coil humbucker. Apart from the fact that the previous teenage owner had played around with the bridge height and intonation, making it unplayable, the only damage is that the plastic volume knob has been whacked right down to the body and the middle has popped out. The guitar works and plays but I suspect the volume pot may be damaged as it crackles through the amp if you touch the bare shaft or attach a metal knob (all I had here). It appears to be fine with the broken plastic one so I've already ordered a replacement. All wiring looks to be in place, including the bridge ground wire, so I suspect the pot has suffered some internal damage in the hit to the knob. It is probably best to replace it no matter what which is easy enough to do.

The obvious thing to do, as far as upgrades goes, is to replace both pots with CTSs. Current pots are stock B500k for volume and A500k for tone with a 0.022uF capacitor. I've read some commentary that A250k pot is better for tone control on these guitars, and also mentions of changing the cap to 0.033uF or 0.047uF. You can buy pre-soldered LP Junior upgrade pots and cap with a Switchcraft jack but I'd do it myself.

What are your thoughts and reasoning? Stay with B500k / A500k / 0.022uF or change values? Why?

The next obvious possible change is the pickup. I don't know a lot about the 700T. I've seen a video where a young guy swapped his out for a dog ear P90 (as was the original Gibson Junior) with only minimal cover up / shimming required. The problem (or not) with this is that it is non-reversible. The cavity needs to be routed out bigger and there will be additional wide spaced screw holes. You can't really go back from this.

The other option is to just replace with a different humbucker. I'm thinking either a used Gibson Burstbucker 2, or new Tonerider All Classics (bridge) or new Seymour Duncan SH-14 Custom 5.

Thoughts or other suggestions please? Should I just leave the 700T in it? Go to the dog ear P90 and leave it that way? I could get a humbucker sized drop-in P90, or go with one of the humbuckers mentioned?

New pots and caps along with the most expensive of those 3 pickups above plus the cost of the guitar will still come in under the price of a reasonable used stock instrument. Or I can just replace the damaged pot and knob for a real cheapie.

What do you think?

By the way, the other bargain I found a few weeks back is another Epiphone. It is a Les Paul Studio in Sunburst w/ hard case. It came with a Vox Mini 3 G2 modelling amp and a 3m Tweed Fender Deluxe cable. All in as new condition and picked up for less than half shop price from a guy who tried and gave up pretty quick. I couldn't resist the obsessive guitar acquisition urges on that one.

 

[Hadronic Spin]

I can't help you POT or CAP values, but I can tell you from experience that the Epi 700T is a hot ceramic pickup, and thrives on distortion. It's a wee bit on the dark side for me, and it's cleans never did it for me, as well.

I love P-90s, and if it were my guitar I would not hesitate and mod the Epi body for a P-90.

Jason

 

[sausagefingers]

Thanks Spin . With the original Gibson LPJ having P-90, that was a consideration. I've read that drop in P-90 are not all they're meant to be. Can anybody comment to that or suggest one that is maybe? The dogear would mean the irreversible mod, not that it would matter if it's a big improvement. You can always use a pedal for distortion.

Humbucker sized P-90s

That's +1 for the P90.



Genuine Gibson P-90 with controls (2019) LP Junior. Not a bad price and would still be a very cheap guitar.

 

[surf green]

Yrs back, I did a post on the conversion of a humbucker to a dogear P90. Hopefully you can find it. It shows the entire process, pics, wiring, and the modified rout. It's the only way to go with a Jr and you will never want to reverse it. And, you don't have to spring for a Gibson pickup, a standard "dog" with 500 pots will get the job done.

 

[sausagefingers]

Thanks SG. (haha, that's next on the list and I may have one lined up. Cherry Red of course.) The video I watched, and I've read another report about a guy doing it, did it with a "sharp" chisel. Better than a blunt (dull) one I suppose, but I'd probably try to be a bit more sophisticated than that. I have power tools.

I'll see if I can find your post.

 

[DrBeGone]

First thing. That volume pot might not be damage, it is most likely just dirty. Get a can of Deoxit or the equivalent WD40 https://www.amazon.ca/WD-40-Special...ocphy=1002546&hvtargid=pla-316073662257&psc=1
You will always need that, so a good small investment.

Electronics are fine in that guitar, just maintain them. You will not see a noteworthy difference replacing them. Keep your money.

A P90 is great, I love them, got several. But, it needs a good amp to give its best. A dogear doesn't have height adjustments, so you're stuck with that. If you go that route, make sure there's enough space below the strings at your preferred action height. You also have to know that a P90, compared to a humbucker, can be noisy. You have to be ready to embrace that noise. Like surf green suggested, no need to get a Gibson P90. I have never played a P90 that sounded bad. I've had a $13 P90 that sounded pretty close to an expensive Lollar.

What I would do is first setup the guitar and see what you like and don't. What kind of music will you be playing on that Jr ? Will a P90 fill those needs ? Maybe not.

A screwdriver is the easiest, fastest, cheapest and by far the most efficient way to a good tone. You might replace your pickups a dozen times, if you put them back at the same height as the last ones, the problem will persist. This also always applies to other guitars you own.

 

[sausagefingers]

Good advice. Thanks. I already tried Deoxit. I do think the pot is physically damaged.

Edit: Funny you're in Canada as that's where the Gibson P-90 is and I'm about as far away as you can get without being in Tasmania. At 62 and retired I just like playing with stuff but your advice is well received.

Edit #2: Funny you say that about the $13 P-90 because I also read recently about being better off to buy 4 or 5 "eBay" pickups and test them. You'll probably get one as good as a high price boutique unit. I suppose it goes back to the early days of hand-wound pups. Some were better than others. I also read that it's pretty hard to bugger up a P-90 when they're made.

 

[surf green]

I finally got a slight start on the Maestro LP Jr conversion from HB to dogear P90 pickup. Not much time in yet, but I figured starting the forum would make me geddy-up. $50 Maestro in near new condition, fret edges were the best I've seen so far, but still not good. So frets & edges got the sanding block treatment 220 to 600 until smooooth. Tuners removed, I have a set of used Grovers ready to go. Nut popped out with a swipe of an exacto knife and was replaced with a pre slotted 43mm bone nut from GuitarMadness, which was an easy drop in. Rosewood was darkened with black stain.

Out with the HB (free to a good home should someone need it). I got a pair of P90 dogs (one for another project) also from GM, $22 shipped, 8 & 9K w/ferrite mags, along with a pr of 500 pots, $6. Seems each dogear has a bit different construction and depth, which determines the dictates the modification of the HB rout. The trick is to center the dogear in the HB opening which should eliminate the potential of a space in the top or bottom of the opening. You can see the outline of the proposed cut sketched on the masking tape over the rout. The P90 cover is also sketched to be sure the modified rout cut will be hidden. Making the cut will be part 2, I'll take pics and will be cutting right thru the tape. View attachment 134897 View attachment 134898

@ sausagefingers Ok, here's a post on one conversion. I also did a few more, but this shows the rout mod, which can easily be done with a Dremel saw with a small blade. It's merely a drop cut to create a "shelf" to accommodate the height of the pickup being installed. As you can see, the HB rout (top to bottom) is not affected, only the ends. The dog ear cover just about hides the old rout, with maybe a "pencil line" visible.
Any questions, fire away.

 

[sausagefingers]

Yeah. In the video (or photos, cant remember now) I saw the guy said the humbucker pocket was only about 1mm wider than the dogear P-90 cover which was virtually invisible. He ended up gluing popsticks in and white painting anyway but probably not required.

I'd still be interested if anybody has knowledge of the expectations of the drop-in P-90s. The cheapest in the list was only $29.

Edit: Guitar Fetish also seems to indicate that the tone pot value is dependant upon the choice between humbucker (500k) and single coil (250k). Look at the Dream 90 range of hb sized P-90s.

 

[Robb]

I have an Epiphone Les Paul junior '57 Reissue that came with p-100 and swapped it with a chinese Kaish P-90 last week and it was as good as the Lollar I wanted to throw in first and the best part is that it only cost $20 cdn !!!

 

[sausagefingers]

Good to know. KAISH Bridge will cost under Au$40.

 

[surf green]

The tale of 2 P90 dog ears. You're making me earn my keep this morning. On a Junior with a wrap-around stop tail bridge, you have plenty of height for the dog ear cover, no shims should be necessary, string height can go from low action or elevated for slide without problem. Here you can use the less expensive pickup (with taller cover), this one is probably a Guitar Madness.

On a Tele application or similar, using a standard F style hard tail bridge, you don't have room for a Guitar Madness or standard dog cover. Here on this Bullet Tele Jr, formerly a twin HB setup, a Seymour Duncan was used. The Duncan has a lower profile and a slightly different rout conversion, and allows for a low action player with the correct P90 height. You got the whole story, Bro.

 

[kdm1218]

Yeah. In the video (or photos, cant remember now) I saw the guy said the humbucker pocket was only about 1mm wider than the dogear P-90 cover which was virtually invisible. He ended up gluing popsticks in and white painting anyway but probably not required.

I'd still be interested if anybody has knowledge of the expectations of the drop-in P-90s. The cheapest in the list was only $29.

Edit: Guitar Fetish also seems to indicate that the tone pot value is dependant upon the choice between humbucker (500k) and single coil (250k). Look at the Dream 90 range of hb sized P-90s.

Re: the pots and cap, if you change from a 500 to 250 and to the higher cap value it will make a humbucker even darker.

I personally like the A (logarithmic taper) for volume pots.

 

[Hal Nico]

Just a bit of food-for-thought. I've got a Vintage V100 Les Paul with a couple of Mighty Mite HB knock off pickups in it now and I like the Bridge pickup and then neck but just for giggles I'm thinking of putting a P90 in the neck e.g a Hybrid

 

[sausagefingers]

Thanks again guys. Great info coming in. SG, I think the guy i saw had to shim the pickup, not the bridge. My understanding was that the non adjustable P-90 dogear was too low. I'd have to take some measurements and look at the dimensions of dogears to nut it out.

Nearly sleep time for me.

 

[DrBeGone]

Thanks again guys. Great info coming in. SG, I think the guy i saw had to shim the pickup, not the bridge. My understanding was that the non adjustable P-90 dogear was too low. I'd have to take some measurements and look at the dimensions of dogears to nut it out.

Nearly sleep time for me.

You can always raise pole pieces on a dogear.

 

[archetype]

Yeah. In the video (or photos, cant remember now) I saw the guy said the humbucker pocket was only about 1mm wider than the dogear P-90 cover which was virtually invisible. He ended up gluing popsticks in and white painting anyway but probably not required.

I'd still be interested if anybody has knowledge of the expectations of the drop-in P-90s. The cheapest in the list was only $29.

Edit: Guitar Fetish also seems to indicate that the tone pot value is dependant upon the choice between humbucker (500k) and single coil (250k). Look at the Dream 90 range of hb sized P-90s.

IMO the Dream 90 sounds good, but doesn't sound anything like a P-90. IIRC it has a Strat-sized coil and that's why 250 K is recommended. The Mean 90 has a larger coil form and is closer to a P-90 tone.

 

[DrBeGone]

P90




P94 (humbucker size). Doesn't have enough space at the end of the bobbin to wind a thick coil like a real P90.

 

[sausagefingers]

Well, I've negotiated with the seller of the Gibson P-90 pickup, with complete wiring harness and controls, and it will hopefully be in my possession soon. Whether it goes in this guitar is not yet determined. I'll see what it looks like when it arrives.

Surprised to see the asking price for early 60's P-90 pickups on Reverb. One was USD$1750. I think it was a 1962. I didn't pay anywhere near that amount, only 1/10 of it including a hefty shipping fee.

 

[SoundDesign]

My vote is to attempt the dog ear conversion if you feel comfortable doing it and will enjoy the process. These are nice as is but also a dime a dozen. A dog ear version, not so much.