2k5Bullet
Squier-Meister
Exactly, anyone's moral compass is really from their childhoods as learned behavior.
Does college make you a “better” person?
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DougMen
Squier-Axpert
I only believe that to a certain extent. I've known too many people with zero morals that had good parents, and many others with a terrible childhood that are very good people. Life is what YOU make of it.
You're right, a PhD program is not the remedy for the lack of a work ethic. If one does not have a strong work ethic, one will not last long in the program.
2k5Bullet
Squier-Meister
Agreed, but they are educating the perfect workforce, one that feels fortunate to have a job. I see myself as a for profit corporation as an individual. I'm no longer their stop gap for a maternity leave or whatever else that is never going to benefit me. Sounds selfish, but I realized that too late in the game really. Then again I was never going to be offered any better than that anyway. So that's where any of us are, how hungry or desperate to pay the bills & keep the wolves away. Because everyone is out there coming after more & more with inflation. They want that "disposable" income, which was never disposable, it's more a reserve for the rainy day catastrophes of life.
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I’ve been a bit flippant in my earlier remarks, so I think I should finally turn the serious knob up just a bit…
I met my wife in college, and forty something years later, I think I’m a better person for it. I’m pretty sure my wife would agree with that assessment, especially the part where it’s because of her.
So, yeah, going to college made me a better person.
I met my wife in college, and forty something years later, I think I’m a better person for it. I’m pretty sure my wife would agree with that assessment, especially the part where it’s because of her.
So, yeah, going to college made me a better person.
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DougMen
Squier-Axpert
On a somewhat and slightly related topic, Europeans find it very odd that the first thing Americans ask someone when meeting a new person is "What do you do?", as if what job someone has defines who they are as a person. They think that's ludicrous.
SoundDesign
Squier-holic
I have an undergrad degree and I used to say that a degree proved you could get a degree, which I thought told employers something good about you. Now that my daughter is in Uni, she tells me stories of classmates paying people to write papers for them and other miscellaneous incidents of cheating and laziness. Increasingly I think that unless your college / university degree leads to a concrete employable "designation", it really just demonstrates that you (or someone) can afford to get one.
Prisons have significant populations of college educated people. "Better"? No.
More educated? Yes.
I don’t think that it can make you better person. More well rounded and can give you more diverse knowledge. It doesn’t make you compassionate, honest, caring, understanding or trustworthy. It doesn’t make you a better spouse or parent.
My stepson joined the Marines right out of high school where he was a mediocre student. He went through the very tough training for Recon (the marines special forces). Much of their trading was with navy seals. Once got out of the marines he became a union pipefitter. He is now nearly 45 and has make really good money (six figures) as long as I can remember. Has a huge home (paid off), just built a huge separate garage, has a nice camper, new vehicles, a Harley, a BMW motorcycle and a snow mobile. He has a daughter in college on a softball scholarship, she was also the most decorated senior in he high school class. He also has a high school aged son who is also a very good student. I think he is as good a parent as I have seen.
My youngest son was a very gifted student and athlete who also plays piano and guitar. He got offered scholarships both for academics and baseball to Butler University. A very good private University. He chose the academic scholarship since it covered more. He graduated with honors. He is now 37 and a Vic ce president for Chase at their downtown Chicago office. He also makes very good money.
Two different guys who took very different paths, both very successful and both really good people. Education didn’t make them that.
My stepson joined the Marines right out of high school where he was a mediocre student. He went through the very tough training for Recon (the marines special forces). Much of their trading was with navy seals. Once got out of the marines he became a union pipefitter. He is now nearly 45 and has make really good money (six figures) as long as I can remember. Has a huge home (paid off), just built a huge separate garage, has a nice camper, new vehicles, a Harley, a BMW motorcycle and a snow mobile. He has a daughter in college on a softball scholarship, she was also the most decorated senior in he high school class. He also has a high school aged son who is also a very good student. I think he is as good a parent as I have seen.
My youngest son was a very gifted student and athlete who also plays piano and guitar. He got offered scholarships both for academics and baseball to Butler University. A very good private University. He chose the academic scholarship since it covered more. He graduated with honors. He is now 37 and a Vic ce president for Chase at their downtown Chicago office. He also makes very good money.
Two different guys who took very different paths, both very successful and both really good people. Education didn’t make them that.
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When I was studying for my BSEE, I met a number of instructors that had a poor grasp of electrical theory. I had previously worked on military all weather search and acquisition radar for the F4-C/D Phantom II fighters so I had to know the ins and outs of electrical theory. One class seemed like I was educating my instructor, not the other way around. I ended up challenging the remainder of the class and the next one, since my instructor was teaching that one, too. But I digress.
College made me better, I suppose. It taught me patience with those that needed it. But, I don't think it was worth the financial outlay to obtain that BSEE, since by the time I graduated it was all about a need for computer sciences.
Oh well, my degree still looks good, hanging on my wall in my music room.
College made me better, I suppose. It taught me patience with those that needed it. But, I don't think it was worth the financial outlay to obtain that BSEE, since by the time I graduated it was all about a need for computer sciences.
Oh well, my degree still looks good, hanging on my wall in my music room.
LOSTVENTURE
Squier-holic
It depends on the college, the faculty, and your willingness to soak it all in. Wether that makes you better or not is another question.
Las Palmas Norte
Squier-Axpert
I almost forgot, I'm a 2018 graduate.
No. Neither does being rich. More often it's the opposite.
It doesn't guarantee a good job or salary either. There are so many kids here with degrees these days still working zero hour contracts for minimum wage and in student loan debt up to their necks.
It doesn't guarantee a good job or salary either. There are so many kids here with degrees these days still working zero hour contracts for minimum wage and in student loan debt up to their necks.
2k5Bullet
Squier-Meister
In the case of the good parents, the people with zero morals had to have learned their behavior from someone as mentors. They certainly had good parents as role models, that's if their parents weren't just an illusion of good people ? The one's with terrible childhoods ? Maybe revolting to avoid being like their abusers ?
DougMen
Squier-Axpert
It's nice if you can always wrap up everything in life into a logical and easy to understand bubble, and go ahead and do that if it makes you feel better, but the real world doesn't work that way. The concept of "the bad seed" is very real, even if you choose to ignore it. BTW, what University did you receive your PHD in psychology from?
DougMen
Squier-Axpert
I had a similar experience, although I only studied at community college for an AS degree in electronics. The best instructor in the dept. was a young guy that got tired of the politics in the industry in Silicon Valley (the it's not who you know, but who you blow hierarchy that exists in those companies), and decided to quit being an engineer and teach instead. The two worst were a guy with a PHD in education, and the head of the dept., who was a superb author, and his textbooks were used by the electronics depts. at places like Harvard, West Point, Stanford, MIT, etc., but he didn't seem to really care about teaching, only about writing.
As for my employment in Silicon Valley, the smartest and most capable guys I worked with were those that were trained by the Navy and the Marines, and they could repair anything without ever seeing the circuit before, and without a schematic, because if you're in the middle of the Pacific or the jungle or the freezing arctic, and something important goes down, if you don't get it working again, not only do you die, but all your buddies/shipmates will too.
When I interviewed for a position at HP, I felt like it was indoctrination to a cult or Scientology or something. I went through multiple interviews with multiple teams of overseers, and they even took prospects out to lunch at a fancy restaurant, to check their social skills and table manners. And, most of it had little to do with my knowledge of the products and circuits in the division that I was interviewing for. That was the subject of only one of the many interviews! It was very creepy!
AxelMorisson
Squier-holic
Well at least regarding PhDs or doctoral degrees as they are commonly called around these necks of the woods, in theory at least...there is a requirement of high moral standards and any proof of offensive or improper behavior can be analyzed and the doctoral title may get withdrawn if found guilty. Of course mix in politics and abuse and you have a pretty complete picture. But at least we were explained that "honors" meant not only what we get but what we must keep and maintain/enforce for the rest of our lives. beautiful speech, now where's that beer...
AxelMorisson
Squier-holic
call' em cla$$holes, because they are class A a$$holes....
