Another Rotten day, does not end..

Naked Strat Brat

Squier-holic
Gold Supporting Member
Mar 27, 2022
1,235
North, Snow, UFO Ville!
Welp...my wife told me we have no hot water. It's a fairly new hot water heater. She goes down to peek around the heater and says it is not running (gas but you can hear it when the burner is working) and then she yells up there is water spraying out the back side of one of the fittings on the top of the tank. The leak means the death of the tank itself. So it is under a warranty. The water intake on the tank valve gets shut off, we mop up the water and make a call to the company that installed the tank. $200.00 just to come and inspect things to determine what is wrong. Yeah like they can't just listen to what we can see, the tank is shot, needs replacement.

25 minutes later, the truck shows up. Servcie man comes upstairs after looking at the tank, says it has a leak on the top fixture and needs to be replaced.; I said are you sure, because that is what I told your company when I called, and then you charge me a $200.00 service call fee to tell me the very same thing!

Now I have to wait for them to order a new tank, and a valve connection. Tank if going to be free. $590.00 for the replacement labor of the current tank, $150.00 for old tank disposal fee, $90.00 for the new valve connector.

The bill will be over a grand. I am not thrilled with this at all. The tank wentg bad, and has a warranty. So I call them back and ask how much to just get me the new tank? They said they do not charge a delivery fee in this bill. Really? Can they deliver the new tank and take the old one if I have it disconnected? Yes. I call around and find the valve connector I need, for half the estimate I was given. So I call the service company back and tell them just come and get the old water heater out when they can deliver the new one. I inform them I can take it from there. I tell them they are charging me too much so I will do the labor myself.

I've used the same service provider for 15 years, I would not have thought they would over charge me. And later the owner called me, said he felt bad that I think they are over charging me. So he tells me they can knock the labor charge in half. I asked him to let me think about it and calll back. I decided to let them do it. It is not easy for me to wrestle a tank around.

I hate not having hot water. dishwasher, showers, clothing washer. Time for a shot of single malt. LOL!
 

Naked Strat Brat

Squier-holic
Gold Supporting Member
Mar 27, 2022
1,235
North, Snow, UFO Ville!
Welp...my wife told me we have no hot water. It's a fairly new hot water heater. She goes down to peek around the heater and says it is not running (gas but you can hear it when the burner is working) and then she yells up there is water spraying out the back side of one of the fittings on the top of the tank. The leak means the death of the tank itself. So it is under a warranty. The water intake on the tank valve gets shut off, we mop up the water and make a call to the company that installed the tank. $200.00 just to come and inspect things to determine what is wrong. Yeah like they can't just listen to what we can see, the tank is shot, needs replacement.

25 minutes later, the truck shows up. Servcie man comes upstairs after looking at the tank, says it has a leak on the top fixture and needs to be replaced.; I said are you sure, because that is what I told your company when I called, and then you charge me a $200.00 service call fee to tell me the very same thing!

Now I have to wait for them to order a new tank, and a valve connection. Tank if going to be free. $590.00 for the replacement labor of the current tank, $150.00 for old tank disposal fee, $90.00 for the new valve connector.

The bill will be over a grand. I am not thrilled with this at all. The tank wentg bad, and has a warranty. So I call them back and ask how much to just get me the new tank? They said they do not charge a delivery fee in this bill. Really? Can they deliver the new tank and take the old one if I have it disconnected? Yes. I call around and find the valve connector I need, for half the estimate I was given. So I call the service company back and tell them just come and get the old water heater out when they can deliver the new one. I inform them I can take it from there. I tell them they are charging me too much so I will do the labor myself.

I've used the same service provider for 15 years, I would not have thought they would over charge me. And later the owner called me, said he felt bad that I think they are over charging me. So he tells me they can knock the labor charge in half. I asked him to let me think about it and calll back. I decided to let them do it. It is not easy for me to wrestle a tank around.

I hate not having hot water. dishwasher, showers, clothing washer. Time for a shot of single malt. LOL!
My amp budget just went good bye..for now.
 

radiotech

Squier-Axpert
Apr 23, 2014
11,808
Freedonia
I just did a water heater for my eldest, water heater was a grand, every install place she called wanted a grand (for install and disposal).
I told her if her and her husband could wrestle it down to the basement, and the old one out, that I would do the install (my 59 year-old right arm has tennis elbow for the last two months, so right now, I can’t do too much with it).

I had her order the same brand, and same size (50 gallon, it’s for two apartments), and luckily everything lined up except for the PVC plastic forced vent.

Yes, it took me longer than it would’ve taken them, including a trip to Home Depot for some PVC… if I consider my hourly rate as a union electrician, if I charged them it still would’ve been a fraction of what the install places wanted…

And I got a nice dinner with my daughter, her husband, and my grand boys!

I don’t know about where you live, but here in Chicago, if you put a water heater out in front, or in your alley, it’s gone within two hours (junkers patrol the streets and alleys). even the last time we did my dad‘s water heater (before he passed) in a small Indiana town, the water heater was gone from his curb within four hours. $150 disposal fee is ridiculous. They’re going to turn around and sell it to a junker (or recycler). They’re making money off it twice.
 

Ray Stankewitz

Jammin' in my Music Room
Staff member
Oct 11, 2014
1,139
Central Indiana
I just had a new water heater installed after the old one, 10 yrs old or better started to "Kettle" on us, blowing the overpressure/overtemp valve and about one-half of the water inside. Basement was getting wet but we couldn't figure out from where until I heard it go off one night and found the sump pump dealing with 20 gallons of hot water.
Total damages were $515 plus tax for the water heater, $300 to install it. The guy that came to take the old heater was moving his truck around the block to pick it up in the alley (or Brown Street, whichever you care for) and some junker came by and asked if he could have it. Had to ask him to move his "More rust than truck" Ram pickup out of the way so the regular guy could load up.
Needless to say, that was out of my guitar buying/building fund.
 

Naked Strat Brat

Squier-holic
Gold Supporting Member
Mar 27, 2022
1,235
North, Snow, UFO Ville!
I just did a water heater for my eldest, water heater was a grand, every install place she called wanted a grand (for install and disposal).
I told her if her and her husband could wrestle it down to the basement, and the old one out, that I would do the install (my 59 year-old right arm has tennis elbow for the last two months, so right now, I can’t do too much with it).

I had her order the same brand, and same size (50 gallon, it’s for two apartments), and luckily everything lined up except for the PVC plastic forced vent.

Yes, it took me longer than it would’ve taken them, including a trip to Home Depot for some PVC… if I consider my hourly rate as a union electrician, if I charged them it still would’ve been a fraction of what the install places wanted…

And I got a nice dinner with my daughter, her husband, and my grand boys!

I don’t know about where you live, but here in Chicago, if you put a water heater out in front, or in your alley, it’s gone within two hours (junkers patrol the streets and alleys). even the last time we did my dad‘s water heater (before he passed) in a small Indiana town, the water heater was gone from his curb within four hours. $150 disposal fee is ridiculous. They’re going to turn around and sell it to a junker (or recycler). They’re making money off it twice.
Dang! You made out on that deal, a dinner...yummy! Sadly where I live, it is not legal to leave anything out near the curb...not even your mother-in-law...0.0 LOL!
 

Naked Strat Brat

Squier-holic
Gold Supporting Member
Mar 27, 2022
1,235
North, Snow, UFO Ville!
I just did a water heater for my eldest, water heater was a grand, every install place she called wanted a grand (for install and disposal).
I told her if her and her husband could wrestle it down to the basement, and the old one out, that I would do the install (my 59 year-old right arm has tennis elbow for the last two months, so right now, I can’t do too much with it).

I had her order the same brand, and same size (50 gallon, it’s for two apartments), and luckily everything lined up except for the PVC plastic forced vent.

Yes, it took me longer than it would’ve taken them, including a trip to Home Depot for some PVC… if I consider my hourly rate as a union electrician, if I charged them it still would’ve been a fraction of what the install places wanted…

And I got a nice dinner with my daughter, her husband, and my grand boys!

I don’t know about where you live, but here in Chicago, if you put a water heater out in front, or in your alley, it’s gone within two hours (junkers patrol the streets and alleys). even the last time we did my dad‘s water heater (before he passed) in a small Indiana town, the water heater was gone from his curb within four hours. $150 disposal fee is ridiculous. They’re going to turn around and sell it to a junker (or recycler). They’re making money off it twice.
The water heater I have is on a 5 year warranty. Items are made by testing them to see if they can be engineered to only last five years so you can buy another one. The older water heaters some times could last 20 years if you took care of them, draining them 2 times a year to reduce the build up of crud. My house had a water heater installed in 1977, and again in 1991, and again 2006, then again 2019. There is a file folder hanging from the flooring above your head down in the basement, one for water heater, one for furnace, and one for fuse box. Makes it nice to see what has been fixed to determine proper maintenance and product quality.

I am guessing next I will have to replace toilets. I already have two faucets that need to be swapped out. I hate plumbing. LOL
 

Hal Nico

Squier-Nut
Dec 21, 2020
942
UK
As a backup you might want to fit one of these for emergencies,

Electric Water Heater Amazon

I have an Electric Heater mix tap instant hot water in my kitchen for pots and washing and no tanks to worry about. Saves loads on water and electric :)

Hot Water Electric Faucet Mixer


:)

Note: They do need a heavy amp outlet. Here in the UK we usually have a 30 amp wall outlet/socket for Electric cookers in the Kitchen rated @ 30 amps.
 
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65refinyellow

Squier-holic
Jun 29, 2015
1,950
norcal
That sucks and is where home ownership costs EQUAL rent.

I think in my six decades that was the biggest long term lesson I have learned, at least in forest fire and mudslide prone mountainous areas in California,

The best any of us here could hope for is that the value a house goes up, and after taxes, at resell covers mortgage and repairs over the long term and is marginally better than renting.

I used to think that all you had to do is buy one house and your savings over time would far outweigh rent because repairs certainly can’t be that expensive and after the house is paid off that property taxes can’t go up too much, right?

One of the good things I learned from building houses in repairs and remodels in my job is that because it’s expensive and unforeseen things happen, please spread out your investments.

The little water heater mishap is a small symptom of what happens to houses in general and that whatever you do, don’t put all your money in a house or houses.

My old landlord told us this at age 95 after he saw people no longer needing to use any of his huge holdings in “office space” buildings, lol.
 

duceditor

Squier-Axpert
May 29, 2014
15,861
The Monadnocks, NH USA
That sucks and is where home ownership costs EQUAL rent.

I think in my six decades that was the biggest long term lesson I have learned, at least in forest fire and mudslide prone mountainous areas in California,

The best any of us here could hope for is that the value a house goes up, and after taxes, at resell covers mortgage and repairs over the long term and is marginally better than renting.

I used to think that all you had to do is buy one house and your savings over time would far outweigh rent because repairs certainly can’t be that expensive and after the house is paid off that property taxes can’t go up too much, right?

One of the good things I learned from building houses in repairs and remodels in my job is that because it’s expensive and unforeseen things happen, please spread out your investments.

The little water heater mishap is a small symptom of what happens to houses in general and that whatever you do, don’t put all your money in a house or houses.

My old landlord told us this at age 95 after he saw people no longer needing to use any of his huge holdings in “office space” buildings, lol.

I think your observations are sound and should be an integral part of the decision on whether we personally are better off buying, or simply renting.

To be recognized, too, is that the financial gains and losses are, or at least can be, only a small (if essential) part of the equation.

If you'll allow, this is very much like the choice on whether or not to have a family. -'Kids.'

In past time a principle reason to have childen was financial. Be it helping hands on the farm or another enterprise, to having someone to look after you when you grow old and by the simple nature of things grow dependent.

Many people go through life viewing most everything that way. Whether they should go to school, what they study, what job or career path they choose. It is all, or at least mostly, in their eyes, a series of economic decisions.

Other people, while recognizing the reality of the economic issues in each such major life decision, choose to relegate that to 2nd tier in importance.

Jan and I chose to rent for a good number of years. We found a nice, small, place in a good area, near family (and thus able to help them as they aged), while allowing us to fairly conveniently be where our work/careers required, and (as important!) see that our son was able to get the education needed to increase his options as he entered and shaped his own adult life.

But at the same time we saved/invested with another goal -- one independent of counted dollars and cents. That was for we ourselves to do for ourselves what we were striving to do for him. Make for ourselves the lives we wanted -- which for us included a true sense of place and belonging.

Our home and property has come neither easy or 'cheap.' And it is neither even now (and may well be yet more demanding in the future).

But is is us. -Jan and Me. It is our life, our souls, our "country" if you will. Things that to us, and for us, go well beyond anything one can relate to a "mere" counting house.

That is not a universal truth. Some people desire to spend the later portion of their lives -- the part that is truly their own -- playin golf, visiting museums, going to concerts -- really any number of things. Yes, including continuing as parents and grandparent, and maybe even great grandparents. -Close to family, Unselfishly available.

There is no one right ot wrong. But to see any and all things thru solely the lens of dollar value -- money in the bank -- that to me is two dimensional thinking. Our lives are to me much more than that.

Busted water heaters to are, to my way of thinking, just things needing to be fixed. Costly and momentarily painful (and sometimes, yes, immediate plan changing -- such unexpected costs needed to be taken and cared for by skipping other more pleasant things). But life ain't that. It should -- it (to me) must be -- something larger.

No, not "a party." Something even bigger than that.

-don
 
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65refinyellow

Squier-holic
Jun 29, 2015
1,950
norcal
To be recognized, too, is that the financial gains and losses are, or at least can be, only a small (if essential) part of the equation.

If you'll allow, this is very much like the choice on whether or not to have a family. -'Kids.'

In past time a principle reason to have childen was financial. Be it helping hands on the farm or another enterprise, to having someone to look after you when you grow old and by the simple nature of things grow dependent.

Many people go through life viewing most everything that way. Whether they should go to school, what they study, what job or career path they choose. It is all, or at least mostly, in their eyes, a series of economic decisions.

Other people, while recognizing the reality of the economic issues in each such major life decision, choose to relegate that to 2nd tier in importance.

Jan and I chose to rent for a good number of years. We found a nice, small, place in a good area, near family (and thus able to help them as they aged), while allowing us to fairly conveniently be where our work/careers required, and (as important!) see that our son was able to get the education needed to increase his options as he entered and shaped his own adult life.

But at the same time we saved/invested with another goal -- one independent of counted dollars and cents. That was for we ourselves to do for ourselves what we were striving to do for him. Make for ourselves the lives we wanted -- which for us included a true sense of place and belonging.

Our home and property has coming neither easy or 'cheap.' And it is neither even now. (and may well be yet more demanding in the future)

But is is us. -Jan and Me. It is our life, our souls, our "country" if you will. Things that to us and for us go well beyond anything one cn relate to a "mere" counting house.

That is not a universal truth. Some people desire to spend the later portion of their lives -- the part that is truly their own -- playin golf, visiting museums, going to concerts -- really any number of things. Yes, including continuing as parents and grandparent, and maybe even great grandparents. -Close to family, Unselfishly available.

There is no one right ot wrong. But to see any and all things thru solely the lens of dollar value. Money in the bank. That to me is 2 dimensional thinking. Our lives are to me much more than that.

Busted water heaters to me just need to be fixed. Costly and momentarily painful (and sometimes immediate plan changing -- such unexpected costs needed to be taken and cared for by skipping other more pleasant things). But life ain't that. It should -- it (to me) must be something larger.

-don
My God, So, so true.

When my parents fell ill to dementia which is a byproduct of “nicer” neighborhoods where the life expectancy is almost a decade more than the national average, I learned that money and thinking only that is two dimensional, yes.

Beyond that, whether slightly or by a lot, is having purpose like you mention.

We will see some unprecedented issues in the western world never before seen in history in both heartache and cost when baby boomers age and decline being propped up by the scantily populated generations that followed us.

Eight of the nine who passed away on my small block were of the generation just prior to us (or very early boomers) and were victims of Alzheimer’s disease.

This is when I realized that purpose is even more important than previously believed in my world view.
 

Uncle Joe

Squier-holic
Dec 18, 2015
2,538
Jersey
That stinks @Naked Strat Brat. I hope your plumbing issues are not too expensive. I just went through this recently. First the hot water heater, then the toilets and faucets. This house is twenty-five years old.

One thing that has helped me with all of this, plumbing, electrical, sheet rock, painting, tile, etc., is playing on sports teams. For many years I played adult league hockey and soccer. I made lasting friendships with guys from all walks of life. They have helped me, and my family, with everything from smoothing concrete to cancer treatment. The funniest story is the plumbing.

It's a Saturday, late morning. My wife had a guy over from Lowes measuring the floors for carpet replacement. I go down the basement stairs and notice a pool of water forming under my hot water heater. I call my buddy the plumber. He gets to my house in five minutes, runs down the basement stairs, runs back up and out to his truck. "I'll be right back." We all look at each other, carpet guy included. "I'm getting it now," comes the call from my buddy.

He gets back with the water heater and has it down the basement before the carpet guy is finished measuring. My friend (who is huge and wanted to carry it by himself) had to run before the supply store closed at noon. The carpet guy looks at me, hands me his estimate, and says, "Everyone should have a plumber like that guy."
 
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duceditor

Squier-Axpert
May 29, 2014
15,861
The Monadnocks, NH USA
My God, So, so true.

When my parents fell ill to dementia which is a byproduct of “nicer” neighborhoods where the life expectancy is almost a decade more than the national average, I learned that money and thinking only that is two dimensional, yes.

Beyond that, whether slightly or by a lot, is having purpose like you mention.

We will see some unprecedented issues in the western world never before seen in history in both heartache and cost when baby boomers age and decline being propped up by the scantily populated generations that followed us.

Eight of the nine who passed away on my small block were of the generation just prior to us (or very early boomers) and were victims of Alzheimer’s disease.

This is when I realized that purpose is even more important than previously believed in my world view.
You mention there lessons that only time can teach. And maybe, just maybe, that is a good thing.

As I wrote once in a blog piece, "every book ends with blank pages." If we concentrated, or even just thought too much, about that, we'd likely not have the moral courage needed to go on - to make our lives worth living. (See "Laughter. Tears. Curtain.")

I am now past the middle of my 70s. My mom and grand dad -- the two members of my family I most resemble, not just physically, but philosophically and 'gifts'-wise -- both died at age 84 with some age-related cognitive issues (Actual diagnosed "Alzheimer's" I do not know)

That is a reality I live with.

Yes, I take steps to hopefully ward such off. Dietary. Activity. Deeply studied choices as what 'chemistry' I allow to be put into my body to deal with current, smaller, health issues. (The medical literature has a lot of useful information - (some statistical, without understood causes). These most doctors, who depend on advertisement sponsored medical journals -- often do not, and indeed are not encouraged to, themselves know.) My own doctor -- a rarity! -- does.

That such things as red wine and dark chocolate promise help -- in this I rejoice! :)

(The above is not a joke. The reason has to do with their containing large amounts of antioxidants and something called flavonoids -- both of which remove destructive chemicals from our bodies called "free radicals".)

Screen Shot 2022-10-07 at 10.54.08 AM.png

Today's artificial extension of the years of life is in some people's minds at best a mixed blessing. Its a quality vs quantity thing. Added years does not, to some people's way of thinking, necessarily mean added living.

So far it is for me just theory, yes, -- not something actually faced -- but I am myself a believer in what I cheerily like to call "Le Grande Snuff." Live life, love life. And I prefer not to do the first when I cannot any longer do the second.

Yup! "Empty pages."

:D

-don
 
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Uncle Joe

Squier-holic
Dec 18, 2015
2,538
Jersey
Today's artificial extension of the years of life is in some people's minds at best a mixed blessing. Its a quality vs quantity thing. Added years does not, to some people's way of thinking, necessarily mean added living.

-don

Amid the pandemic we watched every episode of Yellowstone. It was a strange series. Good and bad. It kept our attention.

My favorite quote was from Beth, and it certainly stays with me: "Life is not a longevity contest."

So true for humans. Maybe not for water heaters.
 

Ray Stankewitz

Jammin' in my Music Room
Staff member
Oct 11, 2014
1,139
Central Indiana
I have family that made the choice to rent instead of buying. My choice to buy was to get out from under spiraling rent increases. The apartment I was living in now rents for $2,950 per month - that would have been most of my monthly income. Now my property taxes are $707 per year, far more manageable.
I might add that apartment is no jewel and it's in a bad neighborhood. 894 sq. ft. 2 bd, 1 bath, poor parking.
 

radiotech

Squier-Axpert
Apr 23, 2014
11,808
Freedonia
I have family that made the choice to rent instead of buying. My choice to buy was to get out from under spiraling rent increases. The apartment I was living in now rents for $2,950 per month - that would have been most of my monthly income. Now my property taxes are $707 per year, far more manageable.
I might add that apartment is no jewel and it's in a bad neighborhood. 894 sq. ft. 2 bd, 1 bath, poor parking.
Wow… I have a hard time imagining an apartment in Central In costing 3K a month… places near South Bend or Auburn would be super nice for that.

Heck, even in Chicago, about half that can rent you a decent house in a number of good neighborhoods.

But if you can own for less than renting… always do.
 


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