Who wants to learn to play guitar with me?

Discussion in 'Music, Theory, Tab and Such' started by Bassman96, Aug 10, 2019.

  1. BlueSquirrel

    BlueSquirrel Squier-holic

    Dec 21, 2018
    Europe
    Thanks a million for taking the time to enlighten beginners like us!
    I have a very dumb question (sorry!). You said that the first mode (Ionian) was, in fact, the same thing as the major scale. Are all the other modes scales as well?

    By the way, I can see now why Dorian is such a cool name for a guitar player! ;)
     
  2. Roccobagadonuts

    Roccobagadonuts Dr. Squier

    Sep 8, 2010
    Remulak
    Oops... Think I left out the most important part. Why understanding the 7 basic modes and getting them down and then translating them to the fretboard in EVERY key is much easier then people starting off would belive or think…

    When you look and see all the names of these modes. And then all the notes and etc. It can start to become confusing... Are you going to have to learn the 7 modes and different finger patterns for them for every key? I mean that could be dozens and dozens of finger patterns to remember. And then you have to remember which finger patterns belong to each key and etc??? It just aint that hard...

    7 finger patterns will let you play the 7 modes. In every key... So u don't have to learn 168 finger patterns to cover various keys someone might be playing in...

    For example a G major scale... With a low E string root note... You will start off on the 3rd fret(G) on the low E... 3 5 7... Then to the next string down 3 5 7... Then to the next string... 4 5 7... Then next string 4 5 7... Then next string 5 7 8 and then finally 5 7 8 on the high E string...

    Now if I wanted to play an A major scale... Starting on the low E string root note... I would start off at the 5th fret and use that same exact finger pattern... 5 7 9... 5 7 9... 6 7 8... 6 7 9... 7 9 10 and finally 7 9 10 on the high E string... I am using same exact finger pattern I used to play a G major scale. But since I am now starting at the 5th fret, A, I am now playing an A Major scale and running thru the notes of the key of A in order...

    Now if I moved the same finger pattern up to the 7th fret... B... I am now playing a B major scale... Same exact finger pattern as I used for the G and A major scales. But instead of starting on the 3rd fret(G) or 5th fret(A) I am now starting at the 7th fret, B... So I am now playing a B major scale...

    Now lets take a look at the 2nd mode... In the key of G... It would be Dorian... An A Dorian mode with a low E string root note starts off at the 5th fret(A)… The finger pattern would be 5 7 8 on the low E string. Then 5 7 9 on the next string down... Then 5 7 9 on the next string down... And then I would keep running thru the A Dorian finger pattern till I got down to the high E string...

    But move that same finger pattern up 2 frets and start off at the 7th fret(B) instead of the 5th fret(A)... You are now playing a B Dorian mode... Move that same finger pattern up to the 12th fret(E)… You are now playing an E Dorian mode... 1 finger pattern for the mode... But where you start off as far as the root note on the low E string determines which key it is in... Play it at the 3rd fret and you are playing a G Dorian... Play same finger pattern at the 5th fret and you are playing an A dorian… Do it at the 7th fret and you are playing a B Dorian...

    So what does this all mean? It means if you learn the 7 basic modes and the finger pattern for each using a low E string root note as the starting spot. You only need to learn 7 finger patterns. And if someone says im in the key of G lets go... You know its a G major scale at the 3rd fret. An A Dorian mode at the 5th fret. A B Phyrgian mode at the 7th fret. A C Lydian at the 8th fret... A D Mixolydian at the 10th fret and etc...

    But then say the next song is in the key of A and not G? Ya use the same 7 finger patterns... But its A major scale at the 5th fret... B Dorian mode at the 7th fret... C# Phrygian mode at the 9th fret... And etc... The same 7 finger patterns u use to play in the key of G... Everything is just moved up 2 frets. As you are now in the key of A... With the major scale starting off at the 5th fret(A) instead of the 3rd fret(G)…

    Its that easy. 7 finger patterns. 1 for each of the 7 modes... And you can improv in all keys... And actually know what ur doing and why...
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2019
    BlueSquirrel likes this.
  3. Roccobagadonuts

    Roccobagadonuts Dr. Squier

    Sep 8, 2010
    Remulak
    No prob. Im bored at the moment and I have a prob with forgetting things so all this info has been stuck in my head since I was 15. Easy to spit it out as I don't have to think about it... As far as the scales and modes having 2 names there are only 2 of them... The 1st mode which is Ionian and also known as the Major scale. And the 6th mode, Aeolian also known as the Minor scale... Beyond that the other modes only have 1 name. Dorian is always Dorian. Lydian is always Lydian and etc... Its kinda confusing at 1st because the Major scale and Minor scale also have "mode" names as well... Ionian and Aeolian... I always think of the 1st as just the major scale myself. I never really think of it or call it Ionian unless im describing the modes and their order to someone... I usually then think of the minor scale as Aeolian... So I consider them myself as Major then just the next 6 modes in order...
     
    BlueSquirrel likes this.
  4. Roccobagadonuts

    Roccobagadonuts Dr. Squier

    Sep 8, 2010
    Remulak
    Yea, I pretty much never even consider or think of the concept half or full step. And then to think of the major scale that way? Or then the modes? To me that would just throw up a roadblock as far as spur of the moment improv goes... I mean if for some reason I get thrown up on stage and Zappa yells out "Key of this" and off they go... I cant be thinkin of formulas involving half steps and full steps. I just need to know what scales, modes and chords are in key so I can get going as well... At that point if u have all the modes pretty much locked into muscle memory in their order. Off you go...

    And to me the important part about grasping that is to understand that the Major scale is the notes of a key played in order. And then the modes have an order and are based on specific notes of the major scale/key... A formula based on half steps and whole steps to create scale structure woulnt be much use to me if I had the unlucky situation of having to keep up with Zappa and a young Steve Vai in a spur of the moment improv jam after he yelled out the key and off they went... Half steps? Full steps? Ill pass... That would be like trying to run the 40 but making sure to dip ur shoes in concrete 1st...
     
    BlueSquirrel likes this.
  5. SubSailer671

    SubSailer671 Squier-Meister

    422
    Jul 4, 2019
    Ohio, United States
    I hear what you are saying, and to some point I agree. You need to have it in muscle memory and just play.

    I find music theory fascinating. For me, I learn to build scales from intervals (what you call steps). I might treat it as almost a mathematical thing, write it out on paper before I play it. Then I play it according the written instruction. Sometimes I'll go the other way--I'll start with sheet music (I cannot sight read) and transcribe it to tab. The knowledge of music theory really helps in that exercise.

    The drawback of all this? My playing sounds cold and technical--no feeling or soul. For me it is a good way to learn a new song, or write a new song, but I then need lots of practice to make it sound natural.
     
  6. Roccobagadonuts

    Roccobagadonuts Dr. Squier

    Sep 8, 2010
    Remulak
    Yea, overthinking it can have some serious negatives that's for sure. Like for example the 7 modes being discussed. That's western theory... Am I supposed to walk up to 3 guys on the streets of India who are just tearing it up. Using music concepts that don't fit into western theory... And tell them their doing it wrong and maybe they should try it the right way according to some rules some guy wrote up long ago in a different part of the world? I think not... If it sounds good. Go with it.,.

    At the same time. If someone learns the 7 basic modes and the order they are in. It gives them a road map. A way to see the fretboard in key... Joe Blow yells out key of G and off they go. You know the 7 modes and have them locked in muscle memory... U quickly pick a spot. Hmmmm Phrygian... Jump into the B Phygian mode which has a low E string root note at the 7th fret and go from there... Maybe u slide ur way down into A Dorian at the 5th fret... Or go the other way and slide ur way into E Aeolian at the 12th or whatever... Doesn't really matter really. The only important thing is it gives ya a starting spot ya can quickly pick. And from there a road map as far as where to go up or down the neck. Every note being in key... Unless ya don't want it to be...

    And that's where knowing it actually pays off. At this point u are choosing to go out of key, If you want to. Or not... And if ur at that point. Ur heading down the right path... Go with the rules. Break the rules. But if ya know all about them. U can do it at ur own choosing... Not just random mistakes cause ya didn't know better... To me the road map to the fretboard is where its really at.... Just to have a starting spot and to know why and then be able to branch out from there. Understanding why as well... Half step shmap step.., Theory can be good or can hold ya back...
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2019
  7. strat_strummer

    strat_strummer Squier-holic

    Age:
    58
    Nov 24, 2018
    Burnin some Nitro...
    @LarsN your chord changes are coming along great, keep it up....:)
     
    BlueSquirrel and SubSailer671 like this.
  8. LarsN

    LarsN Squier-Meister

    Age:
    43
    173
    May 13, 2019
    Austin, TX
    Thanks.

    I actually e-mailed my guitar teacher on Saturday a copy of the song. A link to the video I watched to get that. And a link to the video y'all got to see. I told him I'd like to play through that a few times, and also learn the Bridge which has a bit different strumming pattern and a couple of additional chords I'm not very familiar with.

    Last week I asked him what I should be working on, and he suggested picking a song, and getting a good start on it so we could play together. The goal is for him to improvise a lead over my rhythm section, and then later for us to change roles. Opening the door for me to improvise a rhythm or lead so I can play with friends. :)
     
    Flying Z and BlueSquirrel like this.
  9. LarsN

    LarsN Squier-Meister

    Age:
    43
    173
    May 13, 2019
    Austin, TX
    I'd like to also tackle "Crawling", "One Step Closer", and "Points of Authority."
    which I think is in acceding order of difficulty
     
    Flying Z and BlueSquirrel like this.
  10. BlueSquirrel

    BlueSquirrel Squier-holic

    Dec 21, 2018
    Europe
    So, after an entire week of playing powerchords for lack of a high e string (because I had broken 3 high e strings in a row), I realized that:

    a) Playing punk songs on an SSS strat without any real distorsion pedal is an acquired taste (and it seems I haven't fully acquired it yet, lol).

    b) It's possible to just buy high e-strings (D'Addario's High Carbon Steel strings, that is). They are sold in packs of 5 strings and they sound much brighter and a bit louder than the Ernie Ball "Regular Slinky" nickel strings that were already on my guitar. Moreover, they don't break as much. Now I wish all the strings on my VM 70s were "high carbon steel" ones.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Nov 17, 2019
  11. SubSailer671

    SubSailer671 Squier-Meister

    422
    Jul 4, 2019
    Ohio, United States
    I like D'Addarios but my only experience with the high carbon steel ones is that they rusted pretty quickly. 2-3 months after I put them on, there were rust spots.

    YMMV.
     
    BlueSquirrel likes this.
  12. Flying Z

    Flying Z Squier-Meister

    Age:
    42
    460
    Jun 1, 2019
    Mobile AL, USA
    Im playing daily still. I've gotten pretty good at Pixies "there goes my mind"

    Im currently working on I got mine by the black keys, i actually played so much over the past few days that the muscles and tendons in my left wrist stoped moving fast enough for me. Lol
     
    BlueSquirrel likes this.
  13. Flying Z

    Flying Z Squier-Meister

    Age:
    42
    460
    Jun 1, 2019
    Mobile AL, USA
    All but 2 phases maxed. Got 83% note accuracy with a 39 streak. Pushed through the soreness.

     
    BlueSquirrel likes this.
  14. LarsN

    LarsN Squier-Meister

    Age:
    43
    173
    May 13, 2019
    Austin, TX
    So I broke out the Ditto Looper this morning. My guitar instructor wanted me to work on improvising a solo over the Rhythm section of Linkin Park's numb. In order to do that I had to get the Rhythm section looping...

    Here's my first attempt ever. At both improvising a solo for this song, AND at using the looper.
    https://soundcloud.com/user-237685257/20191120-learning-to-solo-over-a-loop
     
    Flying Z likes this.
  15. Jay Jackson

    Jay Jackson Squier-Nut

    Age:
    66
    641
    Sep 1, 2018
    sanluisobispo CA (3401
    I found a good video about Modes, Jake lizzio
     
    Flying Z and BlueSquirrel like this.
  16. BlueSquirrel

    BlueSquirrel Squier-holic

    Dec 21, 2018
    Europe
    @Flying Z Not sure playing through the soreness is a great idea, though. You don't want to get tendinitis.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2019
    Flying Z likes this.
  17. Flying Z

    Flying Z Squier-Meister

    Age:
    42
    460
    Jun 1, 2019
    Mobile AL, USA
    Yeah, i backed off the last couple days with how long I've played to rest my wrist a bit.
     
    BlueSquirrel likes this.
  18. Flying Z

    Flying Z Squier-Meister

    Age:
    42
    460
    Jun 1, 2019
    Mobile AL, USA
    Nice work. :cool:
     
  19. BlueSquirrel

    BlueSquirrel Squier-holic

    Dec 21, 2018
    Europe
    @LarsN You're doing great! Using a looper is difficult.
     
    LarsN likes this.
  20. BlueSquirrel

    BlueSquirrel Squier-holic

    Dec 21, 2018
    Europe
    What is everybody up to these days?

    I'm back to working lots of extra hours so not a lot of time left for guitar. I'm currently learning "Boys don't cry" by The Cure (practicing a few barre chords along the way).

    I'm also re-learning Sunday Bloody Sunday (trying to improve).

    How about you all?
     
    Flying Z likes this.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice