Tonality....

Discussion in 'Other Guitars' started by jamesgpobog, Apr 9, 2020.

  1. jamesgpobog

    jamesgpobog Squier-Meister

    Age:
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    Feb 18, 2020
    SoCal
    Being about 95% ignorant about guitars and tonality, I have a problem sometimes either expressing or understanding descriptions about sound qualities.Kinda like all those flowery descriptions of wine...

    But noodling around with my no-name/Glarry telecaster, I'm surprised that I'm actually getting some tones that I sort of recognize.

    Out in the Man Shed I have a couple amps hooked up, an old Brownsville with an overdrive button and 2 gain pots, as well as the usual vol/treb/mid/bass.

    Not knowing what I am doing, I took the output (headphones) and went to the input of the keyboard low power 2 channel amp (also with vol/treb/mid/bass) with reverb. That limits the max output, but gives pretty neat distortion at low vol levels so I don't blow out the neighbors.

    But now to the tone quality question. This is gonna sound weird but I do not know how to express it differently. Some sounds I hear have a distinct shape. As in a physical shape, and I hear some sounds as 'tubular', the sound as a tube (like a pipe, not a vacuum tube).

    The telecaster is where I'm starting to approach what I hear the pros produce. I'm using the tele neck, and playing around with different settings on everything, the Brownsville, the piano amp, and the guitar.

    With big broad strokes, if this makes any sense at all, what am I hearing, does it have a name, and where should I head with trying to dial it in further? I hear it in several places in the vid, 1:20+, 1:30+, 2"20-ish, and especially the last note of the 'intro', right before Mason crashes in.


     
  2. Rodiebobw

    Rodiebobw Squier-Nut

    Age:
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    Sounds like you are tryimg to mix all amps together with different eq settings..However that will voice differently.. Tone is hard to characterize at times.. The act of using three amps used to be the clean, crunch, lead sections. If you are using them say separetly.. If you are mixing your guitar into all at once together, You would probably want to set each individual, then play all at once and adjust the conflicting, or weak eq stretches.

    TONE Characteristics of the guitar or amps can be subjective, but better to get a baseline for where there sweet spots are.

    Tone for guitar is usually about the pickups and electronics...Maybe the most true is your hands.. Good guitar players will make a piece of grass waving in the wind sound good..
     
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  3. Rodiebobw

    Rodiebobw Squier-Nut

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    110 he is on the edge of his feedback loop.. Has the tone adjusted down a small bit...Im sure he has a good part of his kitchen sink..Gilmore likes to use fx but most of it use very tastefull.. Never too much..

    He leans on his digital delay, but i do some of what he does with the digital delay..Not that i learned from him just that padding the guitar with delay and volume pedal swells force you to take out the treble some..I hope that makes sense.. He also has a very small amount of chorus.. in the 80s we oversaturated chorus.. If you record with chorus you can hear its effect if you use too much.. You want a hint of it, like a small wind blowing a mist barely discernable by your nose. That is the secret to using chorus.. It also like reverb will cut your highs in small amounts, but it softens the mix... Just use appropriate amounts.. you can hear this at high volume, not necessarily high gain.

    Chorus is a great effect on clean guitars, it can be used effectively on crunch rythms but leads it can chop off the top of the eq.. You want a kiss, a sparkle but cut it back till its tastefull.. You are jacking with the stereo sound of your guitar.. So keep the focus of EQ in your mind instead of tone..

    Sounds like you are studying well.. The secret to using effects is not putting all mix to 10.. its painstaking listening to your output and finding the crease where its organic...
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2020
    MyToyBrain and jamesgpobog like this.
  4. jamesgpobog

    jamesgpobog Squier-Meister

    Age:
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    SoCal
    Well that leaves me out...

    And the 2 amps in series...no deep thought process, just "I wonder what will happen if I do this..."
     
    Rodiebobw likes this.
  5. Rodiebobw

    Rodiebobw Squier-Nut

    Age:
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    Hahahaha.. I used to run mine both ways. I used the amps separately with an ab switch.. I also would take my dry out to my second channel from my digital delay and run into my second channel..on my JC it does not apply fx to that channel.(On board fx of chorus and reverb).It expands the amt of delay and gives you a nice stereo effect. You also would have to eq them to balance..That possible? You can send the dry out to the other amp as well.. I dont have a send or return on the JC so its up front of both amps..

    This gives you a way to stereo.. You can also run effectz behind the dry line to the other amp..

    That make sense?
     
  6. Rodiebobw

    Rodiebobw Squier-Nut

    Age:
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    What this does is fatten up your sound..I remember the first time I experimented with this plus I miked the amp and pushed all of this out to house and back to the monitors.. Thought I was playing a overdriven keyboard..Instant woody!
     
  7. Rodiebobw

    Rodiebobw Squier-Nut

    Age:
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    Rockwall, Tx.
    Dont give up bro this is not that complicated..A stereo delay usually gives you this kind of option, further experimenting with sound is what we do.. keep your drive down low, if you need to use your fx send and return do it..

    YOUR outboard fx usually sound better in front of your amps, when you use the fx and return you are inserting your fx between the pre and power amps.. So you have to think about what sounds good there in what order.. Keep your drive pedals low ans see what it does.. Hell they wouldnt put them on amps if players did not demand the circutry back in the 60s -70s -80s

    One other item to get that knowledge..Get your manuals off the internet if you dont have them..Hell search for fx settings online and see what other users of those amps have done..
     
  8. Rodiebobw

    Rodiebobw Squier-Nut

    Age:
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    Jan 12, 2020
    Rockwall, Tx.
    My setup on my JC-120 outboard

    VOLUMR PEDAL>
    TUBEDRIVER>
    BOSS Digital delay> (If second amp dry out to second amp, if not, dry to second channel of Jc120)
    WAH>
    OUT TO Main input>
    CHORUS On amp>
    REVERB ON AMP>

    Simple.. I can run like hell..lol
     
  9. Dinomikesr

    Dinomikesr Squier-Meister

    Age:
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    Nov 25, 2019
    South-East
    In the Gilmore video I hear a delay effect, compressor/sustainer, reverb, and working his tremolo bar on the guitar. You can also dial in a lot of sustain with a fuzz pedal and with that it gives you more control with the guitar's volume control.

    In my video is something I was noodling around with in March. It's a Squier Standard with stock pickups, pots and 5 way switch. At around 43 seconds to go I flip a switch I added which turn's on the neck pickup with the bridge pickup. I'm playing though two clean solid state amps with a Holy Grail reverb, Ibanez DE7 delay, Boss CS3 compressor/sustainer, and a Danelectro French Toast fuzz pedal. Don't use non-Boss Fuzz pedals after another Boss pedal. Using Fender thin picks. Guitar volume knob is between 4 and 6 and I'm working it between 4 and 6 through out. After 6 the Fuzz starts to get hairy. Below 4 it starts to sound really thin. With about 10 seconds to go I play a soft note and just let it sustain out.
     
  10. jamesgpobog

    jamesgpobog Squier-Meister

    Age:
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    Feb 18, 2020
    SoCal
    I really appreciate all the suggestions and explanations, but I can barley even play anything, I'm kinda stuck at the 12-bar and the Blues scale (it's the old hands that don't work too well). It's interesting to read and learn how deep this guitar/amp/effect/git mods/ad nauseum pool is though...
     
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  11. jamesgpobog

    jamesgpobog Squier-Meister

    Age:
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    LOL... WAY over my head. I'm the Noob poster boy...
     
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  12. Jay Jackson

    Jay Jackson Squier-Nut

    Age:
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    Sep 1, 2018
    sanluisobispo CA (3401
    Here is something I will do to find different tone with out changing any settings on the Guitar or amp, Pick/ strum further up the neck like at the 17th fret then down at the bridge this will give me a big difference between the tone on the same settings. A warm sound up on the neck and a sharp crisp sound down at the bridge and every thing inbetween at different spots along the two areas.
     
    jamesgpobog likes this.
  13. wonkenstein

    wonkenstein Squier-holic

    Feb 3, 2017
    NH
    Don't worry about it or what it's called.... you are starting to recognize some familiar sounds that you want to go after. Just keep chasing those tones.... it's going to make you play more and more often and the old hands are going to get a work out on a regular basis. You might not think so but you are having a period of discovery. We all get them. But most of us, myself included, have no idea when the illusive light bulb will burn brighter. Keep on playing!
     
  14. Rodiebobw

    Rodiebobw Squier-Nut

    Age:
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    Jan 12, 2020
    Rockwall, Tx.
    Wonk is right.
    When I started putting a sound together i studied up on the effects i wanted, but it was not in context of trying to get a certain tone coz didnt take time to consider..lol..Just wanted balls..

    I locked it down as I went along.. The only real chance I took was with the tube driver.. .I did have a boss overdrive..It was aight but the nature of the JC120 is Clean guitar with a great stereo chorus.. It takes a hammer well on the front end..The tube driver was simply an effort to harden up the clean sound.. I got lucky and got a solid tube overdrive...I had no idea what I was looking for.. Lol
    .
     
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