Our Stages in Life

Discussion in 'V.C.'s Parlor' started by duceditor, Oct 8, 2017.

  1. duceditor

    duceditor Dr. Squier

    Age:
    70
    May 29, 2014
    The Monadnocks, NH USA
    The thing that strikes me, David -- and it is consistent in your posts -- is that you know who you are. That is no small thing.

    It means knowing your own wants and needs. Determining them yourself. And being able to be honest and focused.

    So many only reach that point, if at all, after valuable parts of their lives, such as raising their children, is passed.

    Such is still commendable. But some things just are gone. Like those precious hours with your boys. So glad for you that you"heard" that inner voice 'on time.' And listened.

    :)

    -don
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2017
  2. Hotrodleroy

    Hotrodleroy Squier-holic

    Dec 7, 2011
    U.S.A.
    One thing I know for sure, is to do what you want while you are young. Don't look back when your half broken down or too old to tie your shoe's. I lived 3 life times before I was 25, a lot of good and some not so good times, but I sure had fun and am lucky to be alive.
     
    jefffam, VealCutlet, rorygman and 4 others like this.
  3. Dcbowling80

    Dcbowling80 Dr. Squier

    Age:
    37
    Aug 26, 2014
    Laplata MD
    Thank you, that means alot. I've always tried to be exactly who I am regardless of how it appears to others. I grew up with such violence abuse, and have fought with chronic depression/anxiety, drug/alcohol addiction all my life and I've fought to change it. I knew very young that violence won't solve anything, all it did to me was beat me down. I knew I'd never do that to anyone anyone, much less the ones I love. I've known that when everything feels hopeless and life seems pointless, that it's a chemical imbalance, I know that when I feel like I'm being stared at in a crowd, I'm not, it's that same imbalance that makes me feel that way. Most of the time I can talk myself out of it, but sometimes it just has to run its course.
    I know my drug and alcohol addictions are a result of genetics, childhood environment and my own weakness. I fought for years to break that, I'm going on 7 years stone sober.
    Years ago ( probably 18 years) I tried going to a therapist, but it seemed pointless. All her questions and picking me apart wasn't anything new. It was something I was already aware of and had done to myself all my life. I know what I've been thru. I don't need to be labeled and medicated to deal with my past. I accept it and Ive tried my best to use all the negatively I was exposed to to and learn from it and make something positive out of it.
    Ive done research all my life on everything, I learn from every source I can. I have an endless curiosity of all things, but along with that has come a few answers. I know that as horrible as some things may be, there's always a positive lesson to be learned. I know that life is precious and a bad life is always better than no life. I know that I can live my life full of pity from the things I've been thru or the things I've done, or I can learn from them and try to help someone else from making the same mistakes.
    I know that the world can hate me, but to my children, there's no one smarter, no one stronger and no one loved more.
    I know that I am me, and everything I've been thru has made me who I am.
    It may not make sense to everyone, but it does to me.

    Sorry got carried away again...
     
    jefffam, so1om, Conghaille and 3 others like this.
  4. novamax

    novamax Squier-Meister

    316
    Aug 18, 2015
    I could chime in, but i won't, because it'd be only rephrasing thoughts already expressed, so I'll keep it to this:

    I can see where a lot of the spirit of this forum comes from - There is a lot of wisdom and true independence in here... You rarely see so much concentrated self-focus of that positive quality that has no need to dominate others or enforce their acknowledgment, but generously grants others the same independence of thought, will, and life...
     
  5. rorygman

    rorygman Squier-Meister

    Age:
    62
    285
    May 9, 2017
    Barcelona
    Thanks for sharing all this on the forum, it has meant a lot to me reading it through. Nothing to add, really; it resonates one hundred per cent with me. Particularly @novamax 's last comment, agree with you for sure.

    Guess what, my name isn't actually Rory, it's David :)
    Keep on keepin' on, my friends.
     
  6. duceditor

    duceditor Dr. Squier

    Age:
    70
    May 29, 2014
    The Monadnocks, NH USA
    That's certainly a part of the picture. Something that I saw and see as avoiding timidity. Not being afraid to live for fear of making mistakes.

    The only things I'd add is this small caveat as expressed by Oscar Wilde -- someone who surely was not "timid" in his approach to life. Said Oscar... "Some people make the same mistake over and over again and call that 'getting experience.'"

    Uh huh. :)

    -don
     
  7. theflow

    theflow Squier-holic

    Age:
    58
    Feb 16, 2017
    Palmetto,FL
    I got rid of my cell phone about 7 years ago and other than not being able to take good pictures for posting here I don't miss it one bit ! Congrats on your "new beginning" Eddie !:)
     
    jefffam, Eddie and Dcbowling80 like this.
  8. Dcbowling80

    Dcbowling80 Dr. Squier

    Age:
    37
    Aug 26, 2014
    Laplata MD
    This has always been a tough one, I was a teen when phones started to be a big thing and we've had them ever since. We've never had a "house phone", it's always been cell phones. My kids all have them, well the 12 and 14 year old do and the 6 year old has a tablet. The older ones go to friends and I want to be able to get in touch with them when I want/ need, the 6 year old has the tablet because it didn't seem fair that the older 2 got something and he didn't.
    They know they aren't sitting around on the phones/devices all day so I gave them options. They can do normal things ( no games/phones) and stay up until 9:30 or if they want to play on the phones/Xbox bedtime is 8:00. That gives em an hour and a half to play on whatever they want. At first they were watching the clock waiting for 8 to come around but after a week or so, it may be one day they go to bed at 8. We do game nights, and movie nights (we have a projector and a 13 foot screen we set up outside), we go for walks, or bike rides, we've built forts in the woods, etc. I know I can't expect them to never want to use the devices, it's the way of the world but I try to give them other options and I try to be involved so they always have something to do.
    It's hard to fight the flow of society to raise kids right because they see what everyone else is left to do and they want to too.
     
    rorygman, theflow and Eddie like this.
  9. so1om

    so1om Squier-holic

    Age:
    50
    Feb 10, 2010
    Chicago

    Well as you had started out saying: Where we live is in our heads. That is in truth our world. The one we inhabit. Less so what is "out there."

    Some interesting thoughts in there but also a very extremely thin slice of the world. And like all thoughts and perspectives, options and principles, ethics each of us follow is shaped from some teachings, and especially from some experiences.

    While the larger part of the OP would entail months of vigorous debate and perspectives; I think most would agree that what is in our heads has shaped our world.
     
  10. duceditor

    duceditor Dr. Squier

    Age:
    70
    May 29, 2014
    The Monadnocks, NH USA
    One more thought I think worth making, although it's I expect seen as rather obvious. And that is the truth of the old saw "there is no one right answer." -And that is no less true even for the varied people who agree with the basic tenets put forth by various forum members on this thread.

    An example of this can be seen looking at my own life, in comparison to someone who is a dear friend of mine. Our underlying value systems are similar, but our daily choices in life cound't be more different.

    My friend grew up in a strongly "ethnic" urban environment, whereas I grew up in the then new, post war, "suburbia."

    I was, apart from the noise I made with my guitar, a pretty quiet living fellow. He a bit of a harem-scarem sort of guy, who in his teens, according to his own story telling, lacked any direction or purpose beyond having a good time.

    I took my studies (not, note, those assigned to me by others) quite seriously, and upon college graduation and a bit of post grad studies, got busy with my life, building a career. Then I carefully chose a life partner (Jan) and never just "drifted" -- never lacked drive and purpose.

    He went through various crazies, married poorly (and divorced), and then, some time in his 20s awakened and changed his course.

    On his own he appraised the future job market, and got in early with computers, going to a well respected 'trade' level school.

    He remarried happily (but sadly lost his wife to cancer), slowly developed his "career" t the point where he earns a moderately good living, and has married again. And again happily.

    Two different guys who are pretty good friends, again, because of similar underlying values.

    But his choices could not be more different from my own.

    I live away from it all. He in a moderate sized, but nice, condo in a mid-sized city.

    I live for privacy and am happiest by myself, with Jan, or maybe a friend or two from time to time. If I didn't desire to see my son I'd never get on another airplane.

    He lives for concerts, has season seats to major league baseball and his favorite NFL team and travels the world at every opportunity.

    Daily choices very different. No one set of choices more "right" or "wrong" than another.

    And so it may be for, really, all of us. Even if we share interests and in some ways think rather alike.

    Yup. Life is interesting. And the possibilities are huge! :)

    -don
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2017
    Dcbowling80 and theflow like this.
  11. so1om

    so1om Squier-holic

    Age:
    50
    Feb 10, 2010
    Chicago
    I am responding to all in the order I'm reading -no! I'm not just reading Don's! But he gets 2 in a row..

    So this is a very good point.

    My father is 83, attempting to sell off his house that is paid for because he thinks it'll be cheaper to have a smaller house. -not a retirement community, but a house. And for a smart man, he does a lot of stupid things. He will still have all his car costs, his utility costs, taxes... Why sell and go through that expense for the same thing? Because "isn't that what you do?"

    Cutting to the chase of the story, very succinct and concise -there is a lot of background I am skipping: He thinks the kids should visit him at his house. He doesn't think he should go to our house. Forget that 2 of us kids live 10 minutes away. Or a 3rd lives about a 1/2 hour away.. No. "Because."

    Forget that I have 2 jobs, my wife has 2 jobs, one daughter with some serious troubling issues (she is safe, more of the Aspergers, depression.axiety variety). Never mind that the other sister and her husband work long hours. Or the 3rd has had both knees replaced, a hip replaced a month ago and that her husband works two jobs to keep their family (3 kids going). And I think he's a little bitter that he doesn't have a daughter's house to move into. Where does that originate from? "Because." Hell or highwater.. "Because."

    One point of contention is that I have been having heated discussions with him to have a power of attorney for his medical and for financial assigned to someone. It doesn't have to be me, I don't care who has it. But as we all know laws have changed, HIPPA laws, estate and tax laws. I have told him if he tumbles down the stairs and is in the hospital, NO ONE will be able to talk to a doctor. He doesn't "get" that the world has changed. Then he tells me I am a little narrow-minded. (And when trying to prod other siblings to get him to assign POA and how important it is, they can all tell me that they know what a POA is and how important they are and are insulted that I was "teaching" them something they already knew... but no one else can take the time to try and get POA..)

    So yeah. When my brother comes up with a new theory as to why my dad is the way he is, I literally.. do not care. I am exhausted from what I have tried to do and we can all talk until we are blue in the face. I don't want to even bother with it because I am done.

    Where is all that leading?

    Life happens. Life changes things. How I view and react to things is completely different from you, the next guy and even members of my own family. The "problem" is when people lack the empathy and the understanding and the perspective of where someone else is coming from.

    Recently in Chicago there was a measure passed that all kids graduating Chicago Public high schools will need the requirement fulfilled of what they are going to do after high school. A good thing, right? And hey -I've been a teacher at a community college for 17 years. Great idea, right?

    WRONG!

    Due to my experiences of how the high school (highly regarded in the state and where me and my siblings attended since the 60s, very well-to-do) mentally abused, gas-lighted, bullied my daughter and us, I wouldn't ask them to tie my shoes. The school is there to teach 2+2=4 and that's it. The sun is about 93 million miles away, I before E, except after C.

    Otherwise, stay out of our lives.

    Leading back to the OP: "And so shaped is my world."
     
    rorygman, Dcbowling80 and duceditor like this.
  12. Conghaille

    Conghaille Squier-Nut

    Age:
    47
    620
    Jul 12, 2016
    Chicago
    I mentioned in my previous post that I've been trying to develop a discipline towards a rejection of meaning. This has a lot of features, but basically, from petty things to horrifying things, it's my opinion that when people value their big brains and put ideas in front of the things they can touch, it is very easy to go down an awful rabbit hole.

    I love a line from the end of the January Man. Kevin Kline has been pursuing Susan Sarandon (his brother's wife) for years. In the conclusion, when he becomes the celebrated hero of the city, she finally gives in and says she'll leave her husband and go with him. Bet he's grown some perspective through the events of the film. She says confidently "You love me." And he says: "No, I loved an idea I had that looked like you."

    I think even in those areas of our lives where we feel most engaged and invested, we can be clinging to ideas and projecting them onto those around us. And the sad thing is that when this happens, nobody gets what they need. It's like when you say "time and time I keep doing things right, and still things keep going wrong". Maybe there's an idea we're clinging to that is getting in the way of really understanding our world.

    There are examples in other cultures of devaluing these concepts. The older member of a community becoming wise by "unlearning what they have learned". Realizing that "common sense" and socialization can never lead to creativity or change (as they are backwards looking by definition). So many ideas we have patriotism, nationalism, classism--as the notion that those who succeed financially are justly rewarded, and those who aren't fail to do so as a shortcoming of character), and so many more--all run in the face of what we really know. What we know by putting our hands on a thing, by talking to a person in direct, vulnerable terms, by looking outside our window and being as invested as the outside as the inside.

    These are things we know, They aren't concepts, but they reflect a value. Confucius responded to a question about his thoughts on the afterlife by saying essentially that there are things in this world that we know that we can make better. Until these are all improved, I'm not interested in things that I can't know. So too, we can talk about broad concepts, but if I can't invest myself in the fate of my neighbor, how can I possible believe I can make a meaningful contribution to an idea that effects millions of people?
     
    Dcbowling80 and duceditor like this.
  13. Conghaille

    Conghaille Squier-Nut

    Age:
    47
    620
    Jul 12, 2016
    Chicago
    Hi Friend,

    Of course I don't know your family or situation. This did suggest something personal to me that, being a frequent consumer of psychological services, apparently may relate to a really common phenomenon with most people. (I see it in my parents as well.)

    The great South African author and civil rights champion, Nadine Gordimer, once remarked on her childhood acceptance of Apartheid before her becoming one of it's greatest critics in saying, "everyone accepts the milieu into which they are born."

    Another way of saying this is that the pre-frontal cortex, which best makes critical thinking possible, becomes fully developed between ages 17 and 25. This means that the things we all accept before that age sometimes are never critically considered. Hence the "get em early" thrust by organizations from religions to political parties to soft drinks.

    But my simple point is, without a guide, most people don't examine and reject some of these ideas.

    Further, people develop skills that allow them to succeed. Sometimes, these can be very conventional, like what a middle class success looks like, and some might be very unconventional, like interpersonal behaviors developed in a childhood home of violence. But regardless, they develop because they help us to navigate the world we're in.

    The things humans aren't always amazing at is changing those skills quickly when the world changes. So when I look at my parents, they're only our second generation living past their 60s, and will probably live well into their 80s. As you pointed out, the values they learned might not be the behaviors that will best benefit them now. It's not their fault. Old dogs and new tricks, right? It's hard to give up that Quixotic goal when it's been *the thing* for your entire adult life.

    I know it's frustrating for me when I talk to my parents and it's also frustrating for me when I start to see it in myself. We can only do the best we can.
     
    rorygman likes this.
  14. theflow

    theflow Squier-holic

    Age:
    58
    Feb 16, 2017
    Palmetto,FL
    I get it .I'm just saying for me it is better,I don't feel tied to it anymore,among other things that I'm sure would get me labeled as" paranoid".:D
     
    Dcbowling80 likes this.
  15. duceditor

    duceditor Dr. Squier

    Age:
    70
    May 29, 2014
    The Monadnocks, NH USA
    Just as there is a difference between loving the idea of people, with loving people. As they are, not as we think they should be.

    And then, just to make it yet more complex, there is the "as they are" not in the individual sense, but in the sense of us just as living organisms, whose nature may be modified by the teachings of a sage, but who is, despite that, what we are. living organism with a code written into every cell of our bodies. Not "above that;" just that.

    Maybe it was that realization more than any other (apart from my own 'weirdness') that made me withdraw some from a larger community, and found one of my own. Small. Very, very small.

    -don
     
    theflow likes this.
  16. Ahnlaashock

    Ahnlaashock Squier-holic

    Sep 21, 2014
    St. Louis Area
    Heinlein on the wisdom of old men.

    ...the experience of others. They learn—when they do, which isn't often—on their own, the hard way." "That one statement is worth recording for all time."
    "Hmm! No one would learn anything from it; that's what it says. Ira, age does not bring wisdom. Often it merely changes simple stupidity into arrogant conceit. Its only advantage, so far as I have been able to see, is that it spans change.A young person sees the world as a still picture, immutable.An old person has had his nose rubbed in changes and more changes and still more changes so many times that he knows it is a moving picture, forever changing. He may not like is—probably doesn't; I don't—but he knows it's so, and knowing it is the first step in coping with it."
     
    theflow, rorygman and Dcbowling80 like this.
  17. Dcbowling80

    Dcbowling80 Dr. Squier

    Age:
    37
    Aug 26, 2014
    Laplata MD
    I wasn't offended, lol. I'm sure theres alot of things we do agree on.
    Were all in different stages in life and from all leads of life. Were tied together by a love of inexpensive gear but other than that, all unique. Could you imagine how boring the world would be if we were the same!
     
    theflow, rorygman and Ahnlaashock like this.
  18. VealCutlet

    VealCutlet Squier Talker

    98
    Aug 9, 2011
    Brookyn, NYC
    Apologies for abusing the "Like" button on this thread. There's a lot of important, thoughtful stuff here. Thank you, everyone, for sharing your perspectives. As people who have a relationship with music, I think we may have insight into the idea that that no two people experience the same reality, ever. Perspective is everything (while applicable, I am deferring any discussion on quantum physics for a different thread).

    Looking back on my first half-century, I feel as though I had the perspective of an older person during my younger days. As I've become "more experienced", I feel a greater connection to younger people than I do to those of my own generation, as my attitudes and outlook has morphed to be closer to theirs.

    A very important thing that I've become very aware of after my dad died 10 years ago, is that as long as I'm healthy, there's no reason I can't do the things I want to do. Whether that's learn to ski, join a softball league, start a new band, or go to concerts where I'm older than the parents of the band members! If the music is good, and I like it, I'm going to that show.

    Also, largely because I love seeing live music, I've become a better friend to myself. I have a family and friends, but they don't always want to go see some band they've never heard of on a Wednesday night at 10 PM when there's work in the morning...so I'll go by myself. More often than not, I go to shows solo. It is very freeing, as I'm never worried about a friend enjoying a show by a band that I love that they've never heard of.

    This has made me much more comfortable in my own skin, at this advanced age. It's translated to other aspects of life, both personal and professional. Should I have taken on this attitude 30 years ago? Possibly, but there's no going back now...only forward.
     
  19. rorygman

    rorygman Squier-Meister

    Age:
    62
    285
    May 9, 2017
    Barcelona
    I'll second that @VealCutlet, now that's an ID I'd like fries with haha. Good post!
     
  20. theflow

    theflow Squier-holic

    Age:
    58
    Feb 16, 2017
    Palmetto,FL
    I say that all the time !:)
     
    Ahnlaashock and rorygman like this.