Gibson's Big "Ouch!"

Discussion in 'V.C.'s Parlor' started by duceditor, Feb 11, 2018.

  1. Photobug57

    Photobug57 Squier-Meister

    Jan 11, 2018
    Hebron, KY
    Anyone remember Peavey's dealer model? Unless you took what they sent, you couldn't sell it.

    The mom and pop that I worked for couldn't. IMO, that's why so many small music stores have went out of business, plus the fact that internet sales have completely gone out of sight. I mean, let's face it, everyone wants to save money; that's natural. But mom and pop stores can't compete with internet prices nor big box stores for that matter.

    Once again, IMHO.
    so1om likes this.
  2. woolbrig

    woolbrig Squier-holic

    Apr 16, 2010
    Bethalto, IL
    I think a lot of the time greed and dishonesty of the high level executives is the problem. If you look at the bonus a lot of them get, it's in the millions. And that's on top of stock options, salary etc. Don't know about Gibson, but that has been the downfall of many other companies. What it boils down to is they don't really care about their workers or company, just their money. Can you tell I'm jaded? :rolleyes:

    I hope they can get things straightened out. I would had to see another big name company disappear along with the jobs it provides.
    Photobug57 and so1om like this.
  3. bchaffin72

    bchaffin72 Squier-Meister

    Dec 22, 2009
    That's definitely important to a lot of people these days, myself included. Most of the Epiphones are really nice these days, and if you're willing to mod a bit, can easily be taken to the next level fairly inexpensively.

    This $209 Special:


    Became this, for the cost of some small parts and a bit of time:


    I wouldn't WANT to see Gibson fold at any point, but they're mostly too expensive for me, so I doubt I'll ever own one, either.
    squierbilly, Photobug57 and so1om like this.
  4. bgmacaw

    bgmacaw Squier-Nut

    Jan 19, 2018
    GA USA
    Some music stores that were originally "Mom & Pop" local businesses have carved themselves out profitable niches online. Sweetwater, Elderly, Rondo are good examples.

    Other local stores have remained in business more or less local by providing an excellent and unique customer experience, something online sellers and Guitar Center can't really do.
    Photobug57 likes this.
  5. so1om

    so1om Dr. Squier

    Feb 10, 2010

    What I also find is that it's not that owners (newer owners) of companies are necessarily greedy and dishonest, but more can be of a learned behavior. They "grew up" with an expectation of certain benefits and compensation. Thereby they don't know how to adjust their slice of the pie to making the company work and adapt.

    Do companies, most companies, for the most part care?

    Nope. Nada.

    There was a meme making the rounds a month ago that summed it all up very well, in short: Why kill yourself for your job when if you die you will be replaced within a week?

    That is how it is at most places of business -it's the rule, not the exception. We're all left to struggle because we MUST work hard because there is always someone faster, smarter, cheaper, biting at your heels.

    The other problem with companies is "well let's not hire them, they're too old." You're paying for experience! I don't know how many times a company has decided on a young candidate, who is a good smart person, but has little to no experience. Companies talk "old people, old ways. we need new!" Yet I spend so much time telling them why they need to add a radius to a corner or the part will break.

    Penny wise, pound foolish.
  6. so1om

    so1om Dr. Squier

    Feb 10, 2010
    My brother was an authorized dealer of Fender back in the late 1980s through the mid 2000s. A few times I spoke to his Fender sales rep.

    Fender loves gateway instruments. Like the old Musicmaster and Duosonic, that eventually morphed into Squier. Squier became their testing ground for new and interesting things, trending things. Getting people interested and then upgrade to full-on Fenders. At least, their friends will buy Squiers or some one will see a kid with one from afar and even make a mistake and buy a Fender or think that's what it was.

    My brother would thumb through the pages -2 of these, one of these, these will never sell here. Later if they didn't sell, the rep took them back and sent them to another store or who knows where.

    Maybe it was just this rep or the times, but it was very flexible and my brother sold A LOT of Fender gear for a small town in western Illinois!

    As an observation, I think it's interesting that Squier really developed into its own little group (like us here). And maybe that's why we are seeing the higher end, more pricy guitars from Squier.

    " We should have graduated up to Fenders but why?"

    A main reason I don't make the jump is Squiers have more interesting guitars than the next level Fenders. I'd take a CV over a MIM any day of the week. My singer just sold his sweet MIM Strat for $180 too. NIce guitar and the right price, but not as nice as a CV. I'd have to go right up to the American series to make the jump.
    VealCutlet likes this.
  7. duceditor

    duceditor Dr. Squier

    May 29, 2014
    The Monadnocks, NH USA
    There are a thousand reasons for what has happening to Gibson, and (as many have here commented) to so many other companies.

    The bottom line to me -- painfully adsmitted to myself and accepted as "so" -- is that human beings are simply part of the bigger thing called "nature."

    Look in the jungle (Oh, excuse me, I mean "rain forest") ;) -- how every tree and vine, to say nothing of animals, looks to climb to its place in the sun.

    Vines depend on trees to get their needed elevation above the shadowy darkness of the forest floor, but if they grow too luxurious they steal so much light that the tree upon which they depend withers and dies.

    Animals too. And yes, -- alas -- people.

    We do have a "conscience", true. But our ability to rationalize is more powerful and dominant.

    Years and years ago, while still in my idealistic youth, the large not-for-profit institution for which I worked faced one of the hard times it experienced from time to time (three or four during my 40+ years there) and announced that there would be a staff reduction. I, `60s child that I was, suggested that we each take a small cut in our salary to save those important positions. -Not just for the coworker's sake, but for the ill people that were depending on each of us.

    Not a single person thought that was a good idea. Not one.

    Yet many of those same people 1) poured themselves out day after day for our "clients" -- they truly did -- and 2), talked all the time about how selfish our society was. (And many of them -- those with initials following their names -- were making big, BIG, bucks.)

    "tis the way it is. Simple as that.

    Doubt it? Go say "hi" to a hungry lion.

    And like those trees and other life forms companies die. New life comes up afterward.

    Yup. 'Tis what it is.

    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
  8. Davey

    Davey Squier-holic

    Mar 31, 2015
    Monroe WA
    Great post Don.

    This Gibson and GC armchair quarterbacking has been going on as long as I have been paying attention.

    In our quaza capitalist economic system it is growth, expand diversify or die. The natural order. This is part of the failings of government picking and choosing winners through social engineering and or propping up entities that should have naturally been eaten by the stronger animal to create a truly sustainable strong base for all to benefit from.

    Expansion is done normally by acquiring debt or selling assets for cash. If big enough allowing stock to be offered. All companies no matter the size are comprised of people. People do F up, imagine that.

    Gibson is not going to disappear no matter how much some would love to see it.
  9. TomL

    TomL Squier-Nut

    I agree. Gibson is a powerful name with so many iconic guitars. Plus, despite the grumblings about the parent brand, there’s a lot of love and respect for what Epiphone are doing.

    Get rid of this Henry idiot, spin the different non guitar brands off, and focus on what’s important - the guitars!
    Photobug57 and dbrian66 like this.