Why do some people look down on Squier?

[DUSTER44T]

It kind of gets me upset sometimes. But I look at it this way.......I"ll take what they don't like and keep playin.

[woolbrig]

Yep, helps keep them cheap for those of us who know better.

[macrocket]

We've been conditioned to believe that if it isn't expensive or in-blazoned with a fancy name, it isn't worth having. Let 'em think that while we play our awesome and overlooked stuff that didn't cause us to go hungry because we spent it all on a guitar.

[mrlinguini]

Brand snobs!

[spanker63]

Don't let it get to you... Its something that will always be there. I used to be down on the Squier brand until I actually played one. If it works for you and does what you need it to do, who cares what somebody else thinks.

[DUSTER44T]

Originally Posted by spanker63

If it works for you and does what you need it to do, who cares what somebody else thinks.

Couldn't have said it better

[Papa Joe]

Their Snobbery is not completly unfounded..sometimes things get so heavily engrained in our minds that it takes a while to shake it out..People that have been around as long as I have remember when low priced things were almost always kinda crappy..Of course it's not always the case anymore..I can tell you for a fact that 15-20 years ago I wouldn't take a foreign made guitar if it was given to me..
.A friend with a Squier Strat and an Ibanez acoustic opened my eyes..My stable is now nearly all low priced gear..And it's just as good as what I used to have..Difference is, now I can afford more of them..
The logo snobs just haven't seen the light yet..Some of them never will..

[macrocket]

I have to admit I was a bit of a snob about Squier until I got the one that's now on it's way to mrlinguini. That same guitar gave me the courage to order a Jay Turser which I'm crazy about.

[cheesehead]

Hey duster....what is that guitar in your pic? I saw an Indonesian Squier with that finish when I bought my CV 60s....Was stuck on buying a CV...so didnt try it...but heard the Chinese ones are the cream of crop of Squiers....And I am still trying figure what exactly the extra $1200 to $1500 for having the other name on the neck is for.

[beetle101]

The extra $1200 to $1500 pays for the name, the advertising and the freebies that they give away so famous players continue to play their product. If anyone takes the time to really check the fit, finish and play ability of the Squier line they'd have several just as most of us do.

[soulman969]

Originally Posted by Papa Joe

Their Snobbery is not completly unfounded..sometimes things get so heavily engrained in our minds that it takes a while to shake it out..People that have been around as long as I have remember when low priced things were almost always kinda crappy..Of course it's not always the case anymore..I can tell you for a fact that 15-20 years ago I wouldn't take a foreign made guitar if it was given to me..
.A friend with a Squier Strat and an Ibanez acoustic opened my eyes..My stable is now nearly all low priced gear..And it's just as good as what I used to have..Difference is, now I can afford more of them..
The logo snobs just haven't seen the light yet..Some of them never will..

Amen Papa Joe. I took the time to highlight that which I can readily identify with and I'll add a bit more.

For you youngsters who weren't around in the 60's most Japanese import guitars were unplayable pieces of $hit. The action was so high you could stick your fingers under the strings so their playability was awful and their sound not much better. Some of them have become collectors items for a few but it's not because they were great guitars.

Then in the 80's Fender came along and began to produce the Squier line in Japan and lo and behold there were some really fine guitars from that era but those of us who grew up into our musical worlds in the 60's wouldn't touch a Japanese import if it was a gift. We learned on Fenders and Fenders were what we were gonna play even though the quality of some of those Squiers outstripped that of their MIA brethren. So from force of habit most of us old timers were headstock snobs.

Today it's different. The economy has buyers becoming far more price conscious but not at the total sacrifice of quality. Great value is the trend today and those Squiers fill that niche. I'm a relative newcomer to the Squier line but I had read so many positive things about the CV models that I had to find out for myself if all the hype was accurate. If I can't see, feel, touch it and play it you're not likely to convince me that the Chinese could build high quality instruments.

So my first venture into Squierville was an almost unused used Jazz Bass and after I got through putting new strings on it and setting it up I really had to admit that it was just as good as any MIA Standard Jazz Bass I've ever owned and there were a few. Last week I made my second trip to Squierville and bought a used CVC for even less than I paid for the Jazz Bass. I have a little work and setup to do on it but it's a beautiful and very nice playing guitar.

So I couldn't care less what name is on the headstock or what it's resale value may be some time down the road. I buy guitars and basses to play not to collect and so far the two Squiers I own meet that need quite well.

[SexyGibson]

Yep, that guitar snobbery, or " cork sniffing " as some call it exisits along all lines. I am also a big Epiphone guy and the Gibson die-hards bash Epi every chance they get.
I base a guitar on its own merits, regardless of brand. While I love my Epis' and my Squier CV Strat, I have played others that I just didn't care for. Its all about finding " the one " and when you do you don't care what name is on the headstock.

[shrekfingers]

Originally Posted by beetle101

The extra $1200 to $1500 pays for the name, the advertising and the freebies that they give away so famous players continue to play their product. If anyone takes the time to really check the fit, finish and play ability of the Squier line they'd have several just as most of us do.

It also pays the labor cost, regulation cost( ever seen a guitar company in china, Korea or japan raided by the govt over wood?) and overhead of insurances and buildings ect. We have to admit it cost bucks to manufacture something in the US.

I think that since most of us mod them anyway to make them "better" than produced, it makes sense to start with an less expensive platform. I for one don't get the wood tone argument in electric guitars, then I haven't been playing for more than 4 years. I have played a plywood guitar and a solid American and couldn't tell the difference.
Hell I saw or read somewhere that Les Paul said he got the best sound he had ever heard out of a railroad rail?
I own Fender and Squier, I own a Harley but can like riding a Honda. The right someone with a Squier could make even Clapton look bad.

[lboorse2]

Funny -- the first guitar I bought was a cheap knockoff of a Fender Lead. That thing sucked. What a piece of crap. I don't recall where that one was made, but I'm betting not Japan. Let's not forget that, yes, while the Japanese knock-offs were junk in the 60s/early 70's, they got really, really good towards the end of the 70's into the early 80's -- it's what Fujigen did before they made guitars for Fender.

The next guitar I bought (this is in 1993 or so) was an 84 SQ Squier Strat. I didn't think anything of the Squier name. I didn't know what it meant. It said "Stratocaster" on the headstock so I knew it was made by Fender.

I realized later on it was made by "Fender Japan" (said so right on the back). That didn't bother me until one day someone was talking about guitars and Fenders in general when I mentioned I had a Strat. "USA Made?" "Nah, Fender Japan." "Oh." End of conversation. Jerk.

Whatever, it was my Stratocaster and it sounded awesome for the music I was playing in my band. It was just an electric guitar. I didn't care whether it was made in Japan, US, or Mars.

Funny thing -- today, I go looking for that Squier badge on the headstock (and in a similar regard, Epiphone). I certainly wouldn't turn down a Fender if it was offered to me me, but I won't go out of my way to buy one. I'll take a modern Vintage Modified or Classic Vibe over any Fender model any day of the week if my own dollar figures into the equation.

I certainly couldn't afford a US Made Fender if I wanted one. Not these days anyway. Maybe someday, who knows. MIM Fender? Depends. But unless those play and feel better than their Vintage Modified or Classic Vibe cousin (or even a well done Affinity or Standard, etc), I'll save a few bucks for an amp to go along with that new guitar.

[DUSTER44T]

Lets face it.....if someone is on stage playing, a very very low % of people can tell if it's a Fender or a Squier until they see the label. We all know different guitars can be put through different amps for different sounds. And then there's the strings and the pedals etc, etc. It's all about the "look what I got" additude.
If I have $200 running shoes on and a track star has a $10 pair on....he's still winning. My point is.....it's not what you play, it's how you play it.
Is Epy to Gibson as Squier is to Fender?

[Fiddler]

In my case I decided to learn to play after I retired. Bought a Squire Affinity and Amp in a Box from GC to see how it went. Thinking, if I get the hang of it I'll get a "Real" Fender.

Well, 9 months or so later I got a "real" Fender, Made in the U.S.A.

Beautiful Sienna Sunburst , Ash body, lovely Wood grain, Great hardcase etc etc.

I still played my Squire for one simple reason : It sounded better, felt better .

Recently found a MIJ Squier from the '80s and bought it. Now that's King of the hill. Fantastic all round. Found another on EBAY and bought that.

I'm well over the Media brainwashing of the Big Label companies.

In my book Squire Brand is tops. There's NOTHING wrong with Squier.

[DUSTER44T]

@Cheesehead......I bought it a little over a year ago from a small guitar shop up the road from me. The owner of the shop used it when he gave guitar lessons he liked it so much. He really didn't want to sell it but.....I have thought a few times about getting rid of it but I like it. It's a china/standard model and it sounds and plays great to/for me.

[DUSTER44T]

I was at GC a few days ago checking out a couple Teles. I tried Fender and I tried the Squier and maybe I got a crap Fender and a good Squier but the Squier felt MUCH better in a lot of ways to me........just sayin.
I hope the big-wigs don't see this and realize they should be charging more for thier product

[spanker63]

Originally Posted by DUSTER44T

Is Epy to Gibson as Squier is to Fender?

yeppers!!!

[Papa Joe]

Is Epy to Gibson as Squier is to Fender?[/QUOTE]

Yep..Epiphone was originaly a US made guitar..Gibson bought 'em out around the early 50s..The original US made Epys were great guitars, some thought even better than Gibson..I've seen several and played a few..
That's when the Guild company started too..Some guys that were with Epiphone started the Guild company when Gibson took over Epiphone..
My first electric was an early Guild..

[ns2joel]

a friend of mine brought over a used Epi les paul black beauty and i fell in love with that thing, as long as it plays and sounds good it's all gravy. i've always gotten compliments on my tone from my Squiers (the Delonge/Whibley models) and those were both stock.

[lboorse2]

If I ever buy another semi-hollow, an Epiphone Sheraton is at the top of my list. I bought a set of Sheraton humbuckers from eBay a while back. They're my favorite humbucker for ANY guitar.

My "#1" changes every so often. If it happens to be a humbucker equipped guitar (usually the case), those Sheraton pups end up in it after a while.

[matiac]

For the same reason they look down on Epiphones. They're "cheap copies" of the original. And I look at it this way, they're an affordable alternative for someone who doesn't have 3000 dollars to drop on a Custom Shop Fender or a V.O.S. Les Paul, and as far as I'm concerned, having owned both brands and their sub-brands, I got no complaints whatsoever with Squier OR Epiphone guitars...for the pricepoint they're fantastic guitars, especially the current crop. I'd take a Vintage series Squier over ANY Mexican Fender out there, same with SOME of the Epiphones, I've got a 2005 Les Paul Classic I'd put up against any Gibson out there, I'd do the same with this Squier I have after a few MINOR tweaks. People who diss Squiers are just cork-sniffers who place all their stock in a name...I've played my share of dud Gibsons before, so what's in a name anyway??

[Sollophonic]

I posted a few pics of my reso conversions on Facebook recently, a couple of them were Squier based.

I had one guy who commented "dont want to sound snobbish, but Squires??"

I put him right that not only were they Squiers (the detractors often spell it wrong) but that many Squiers were not only very good, but also many gigging and even well known musicians regularly play and gig them.

Brand snobbery, nothing more. Sure there are some Squier guitars that are lemons, but I'd put most Squiers up against some of the output that Fender were putting out in the late 1970s/early 1980s.

[czook]

Originally Posted by lboorse2

If I ever buy another semi-hollow, an Epiphone Sheraton is at the top of my list. I bought a set of Sheraton humbuckers from eBay a while back. They're my favorite humbucker for ANY guitar.

My "#1" changes every so often. If it happens to be a humbucker equipped guitar (usually the case), those Sheraton pups end up in it after a while.

I have an EPI Sheraton. Great Guitar.

Would not modify most Epi's I have had my hands on. I always mod a Squier, or at least take them apart to sell the body and electronics and keep the neck if it is a Maple fretboard. I build bodies, I buy necks.

[Muddslide]

Lots of good discussion here.

It's true that when you buy a big name brand you are playing for a lot of overhead including advertising and many other things.

I ain't knocking big name brands, but in this day and age I personally see no reason to spend more than $500 on a guitar. If I was buying something vintage or getting something custom built, yeah, but an off-the-rack mass-produced instrument? Don't see the need. Don't care what's on the headstock. I rarely play the headstock.

It's not mystical...electric guitars are wood and wire. Sure some have much better wood and wire and components than others, but I have no problem buying a decently-made cheapie and upgrading some electronics and hardware if it seems necessary.

Nowadays with CNC machines and increased internat'l trading and people actually providing good specs and QC, really perfectly decent instruments can come from a factory anywhere.

I'll tell you what gets me is folks who buy a $1500 or more MIA Fender or a $2400 gibson and before they have it unwrapped they are already talking about all the upgrades and pickup swaps, etc. they plan for it.

If I am gonna spend upwards of a grand on a guitar, it's bygod gonna be exactly what I want and lacking for nothing--nothing that I feel needs to be changed.

One other thing--a very cogent, valid argument can be made that the only "real" Fenders are the ones made in California prior to the CBS takeover in 1965, when Leo and Gearoge were at the helm. You could legitimately say that anything after that point or made anywhere else is not a true Fender, regardless of what the headstock or neck plate say.

[Caddy]

Really, a lot of it comes down to some people wanting the 'logo' so they feel more like a 'real' player. But mainly, if you had just bought a $1500 guitar and someone bought one equally as good for 1/5 that price or less you have to try to justify and defend that purchase somehow.

The funny part is that the really high profile players don't even have to buy their 'logo' guitars. It's just an endorsement deal for the company.

[totheMax]

If you were to go through GC and grab an equal number of Standard to mid-level Fender MIA's and MIM's and compare side by side with the mid to higher end Squiers there will be slight physical differences (granted rarely is anything halfway set up at GC), but if your goal is playability it becomes a hard choice (especially after looking at the prices).

As mentioned above - part of the markup is higher quality parts and US labor (excl. MIMs on US labor as they are assembled in Mexico) and the other part is because the company can do it and people will continue to buy them (Harley's are the same).

I have an Epi Les Paul Standard that plays as nice as many of the Gibson LP's, it's a similar situation.

That said the folks that went for the Fender or Gibson price diff. will get some of that back in the guitar holding it's value, and Epi's and Squiers will keep value better than most other imported replica guitars. What doesn't make sense is to spend $300+ on an Epi or a Squier and put $200 in mods into it trying to make it a Fender or Gibson - unless it's a labor of love it's easier to save a little longer and get the name brand maybe a used one and mod it gently. Most guitars are worth more stock - or with mods that can be reversed (keeping the OEM parts for the next owner).

So the question rolls to whether you are looking for a "player" or a "collectible", or both? I know when I got my 1st real Strat I babied for about 6 months, then playing regular with it - 5 years later it looked like it had been through a war - now that's a desireable look so go figure

Another thing that has also been mentioned is that the the "base" quality of low priced import guitars exceeds anything seen in the past. It's like price wars anymore - an Affinity anymore ships as a pretty playable instrument and an excellent starter guitar (I had an Affinity neck on my P-caster for a long time and I really liked it). There are still some junkers out there but not as much - I think of my first Teisco in the late 60's, it was virtually unplayable not even close to a Bullet.

Of course a Bullet doesn't have a full "mission control" console of rocker switches either...

[bluesguy62]

Hi all . Interesting discussion. I've owned and played 'real' Fender USA and Fender Japan Strats, as well as a Gibson USA Les Paul Standard and various Ephiphone Les Pauls. Truth be told, until the mid-'80s, Squier Strats that made their way to Malaysian stores were, to put it kindly; not up to standard.

However, the Squire Strats of late are fine guitars. You won't get the quality of craftmanship or materials of say, an American Standard Strat, but at such low prices; dare we complain? With sensible hardware/electronics upgrades; Squier Strats have the potential to grow into great guitars (in the right hands, of course). I've serviced and upgraded several 21st century Squire Bullet Strats and found them to be a good base for upgrades. Why, even the body cavities were shielded with carbon paint. My only axe at present is a Squire California Series Strat, and it's good enough to gig with without upgrades. Of course, I've torn it apart to do a couple mods, but that's one of my hobbies .

Epiphones are quality guitars too. Even the Les Paul Special II I recently owned only needed 1 upgrade: full-sized pots. The toggle switch was identical to a Gibson 'leaf'-type switch; quite unlike the sealed 'box'-type toggle switches commonly used on cheaper Les Paul copies/clones. I was really impressed with overall quality of the LPS II as compared to a 'real' Les Paul.

The bottom line: see a potential new buy as a guitar in its own right, and do not be swayed by brand names. Check out the most important features (Dan Erlewine's Guitar Player columns, books and online articles are a good guide) of the guitar and then decide if it is good enough to be a solid base for further upgrades/mods. If the wood, neck, fretwork and playability are of a decent standard, and it sings acoustically; buy it! Hardware and electronics can be upgraded easily, not to worry . Don't anyone look down on Squires or Epiphones without first giving them a chance to prove their worth.

[YeahDoIt]

Those hollow body Epiphones are high quality guitars. I wish that I had one.

[SexyGibson]

Another thing I have noticed is it's just some " Joe Blow ", like myself, playi,ng a Squier or a Epi you will hear, " oh, he's just playing a Sqiuer "; but if it were to be someone more well known it would be like, " wow, he's playing a Squier " !

[DUSTER44T]

Like I said before....
When I go to GC and the salesman is trying to show me some nice highend guitar I stop him dead and tell him #1 I can't afford that and #2 I'm not that good, the Squiers are more than fine for me. I don't want to put them(Squier) down, it's just that they work for me in a lot of ways and I'll stay with what works.
Like I said before....
Having a nice high price/big name guitar does NOT make you play better, practice does.

[Budwen Stevie]

This thread is why I am here and not at strat talk. I own an epi les paul 100 and an 50's classic vibe strat. Both of those guitars play better than their expensive counter parts. If Slash played a Epi 100 or if Stevie Ray played a Squier, everyone would be raving about those brands. It just floors me that people's high end brand snobbery is so naive. To be honest, there is very little tone difference. You can see the chinese "Fibsons" on YouTube and they sound pretty good after setup. In fact, I heard Pesky-Pesky play a Squier on you tube and was floored. To me, it will sheep following the latest BS of highend guitars. We are the road least travelled gentlemen and that is why it makes all the difference.

[alfunkz]

i will debate with anyone about the quality of squier guitars and have done on this forum, fender have pulled no punches on the current squier range of guitars especially the high end models. i have told this tale before so prepare to yawn .

when i purchased my cv 50's i was actually looking for a fender MIM standard (couldnt budget a MIA), i went to my local music shop and asked to try a couple out, he said that he didnt have any MIMs in stock oly MIA, and told me a little secret as he pointed to the pretty white and gold squier on the wall, i loved the look straight away (being a dave gilmour fan) but i looked at him with a screwed up nose and said i have had a squier before its time to grow up now, he just shook his head and said try it, so i did and it was like kissing kylie minogue (sorry teenage crush coming out there), heavenly. Needless to say i walked out with a budget dave gilmour replica, happy as larry and smiling like a cheshire cat.

The moral of the story is "if you feel the need to be an ass towards the squier, then you clearly havent picked one up for sometime", and if the authorised fender dealer is gonna sell me a squier over a fender by reccomendation who am i to argue

[ricras384]

My best guitar right now is an American made Gibson Les Paul Standard Traditional Pro. That guitar came right out of the box ready to play and I have never had to do anything to it other than change the strings. I own a 1980 American made Fender "Strat" in Lake Placid Blue and it is also a great guitar. That being said, I have owned Epiphone Les Pauls and I still own a couple of Epiphone acoustic guitars that are very well made and have been a great value. I recently purchased a Squier Bullet Strat to mod out and I have to say I like the guitar very much right out of the box. I will say the Squier and the Epiphones required a little bit of set up when I got them, but it was accomplished easily enough and they are fine guitars. Now I find myself scanning Craigslist for killer deals on Squiers and Epiphones. The are out there and you can score a nice guitar and with the help from folks on this forum you can turn it into something exceptional. For all of you young players out there looking to upgrade or get your first guitar that is the route I recommend. Just my two cents.

Eric sends

[Sollophonic]

Slash actually made his most iconic recordings with a copy of a Gibson Les Paul.

One that Gibson are copying now as a "tribute" model.

Ask yourself, would you rather have an Affinity strat or one of these?



Check out the frets too


An Affinity Tele or one of these?


Both starter guitars when I started playing, both the equivalent in £/$ to bottom end Squiers at the time.

I know what I'd plump for.

Now ask yourself, what would you rather hear?

Jeff Beck playing your Squier Affinity, or someone bog standard playing Jeffs Custom Shop?

Or even you (the detractor) playing Jeffs Custom Shop?



Same again, I know what I'd rather hear.

Finally, when you are playing your guitar, can you clearly see the logo on your headstock?

And can more than 10% of your audience be bothered whats on your headstock either?

I gig with Squiers, Westones, Gibsons, Fender and more. Your amp is 75% of your tone. A Squier through a good amp will sound better than a Custom Shop Fender through a crap one.

And can we settle it once and for all, whether you are a fan or a detractor, its SQUIER. S-Q-U-I-E-R. Named after a real person. Just like Leo. Just live Orville. Just like Paul. Or can we have some threads slagging off Fedner or Gisbon or Paul Read Smythe, or other such misspellings based on ignorance.

If you're going to criticise at least check you spellings.

Or just shut up and play your guitar

[alfunkz]

all said and done we all play the guitars we do because we love em, and we know our guitar heros for their style of playing and tone as well as the guitar they play. but this snobbery is almost like a class war just because you have money in your pocket you dont have to spend it all, but if you really feel the need to do so, buy a squier and then go for a posh dinner its a much better way of feeling a class above everyone else

[Budwen Stevie]

Amen reverend alfunkz!

[alfunkz]

thank you very much, i am here all week

[kevinpaul]

Originally Posted by YeahDoIt

Those hollow body Epiphones are high quality guitars. I wish that I had one.

The stuff to mod other guitars is not east to find. The Bullet is the mod father, that baby helped parts grow, now any Fender an be one of a kind. I always look at Fenders on TV and when I am out. Ya see things you never thought of.
The only Fender I had many problems with was an American made Strat. Things did not work and things fell off. It was as bad as my Ford. Indonesia is king.