Fender MIM "Squier Series"

[woolbrig]

I've seen a few of these for sale and was wondering are these Finders or are they Squiers? And are they any good?

I've tried to do some research, and from what I have found they were produced in the mid 90's. But that's about were the consistency ends.

I have found everything from "they Fender American bodies & necks with import hardware" to they are plywood bodies and cheap hardware and are not truly Fenders but Squiers. Can anyone shed some light on these?

Here is the headstock I'm referring to...

[DreadSi]

Check out this thread
http://acapella.harmony-central.com/....php?t=2221334
Can't vouch for the accuracy of the info, but I have seen it reposted multiple times.

[peskypesky]

i have one. a '94.

from my research, this is what i found. the Mexican factory burned down, so for a while, maybe close to two years, the Fender Squier Series' bodies and necks were made in the US and then fitted with cheaper parts than the other Fenders. i can't remember if the guitars were shipped to Mexico for the hardware installation, and if there was no factory there, i don't see how that could have been the case. but they do say Made In Mexico.

now i'm confused again.

[peskypesky]

found this too:

You might have heard of mexican made Fender guitars with a black headstock decal, sometimes associated with some mystery Squier Series made in Mexico. It’s true that there actually was a “Squier Series” that was made by Fender in Mexico and featured a black decal on the headstock, but not all mexican made Fender guitars with such a black label were part of that very “Squier Series”. Since there appears to be a lot of confusion and half-knowledge about these guitars out there, I decided to do some research on my own.

The black label was used by Fender Mexico for a limited time only between 1993 and 1998. It can be found exclusively on the rather short lived mexican “Traditional” and “Squier” series for the Telecaster, Stratocaster and Precision Bass. Usually, Squier is to Fender what Epiphone is to Gibson. In this very case, the use of the name “Squier” had nothing to do with the actual Squier brand, as the series was named “Squier Series”, but it was by all means a Fender series, not a Squier series. The keyword is “series”, not “Squier”. The regular mexican “Standard” series was available too at the time, but it already featured the same silver-ish logo that is still used for it today. However, between 1993 and 1998, both labels (the black AND the silver-ish one) were used for mexican made Fender guitars, but for (slightly) different guitars.

The guitars with the black label consisted mostly of overstock american made Fender necks and bodies. The parts were shipped to Mexico for assembly with mexican made pickups and far eastern hardware and electronics. The overall quality of these guitars turned out to be below the Squiers made in Japan and Korea, whose production came to an end around the time the mexican made guitars with the black label surfaced, yet above Squiers made in China and Indonesia, whose production had not yet begun at the time. The guitars ended up on the american and european market for just about as much as a guitar from the regular “Standard” series would cost at the time.

Some (not all!) of the guitars were sold for a few bucks less as they came with 1-ply pickguards and hardware of slightly lesser quality. Those guitars (and those only!) had an additional smaller “Squier Series” label on front of the headstock, right were the artist models have the artist’s signature. Though some owners probably sanded off their “Squier Series” label, it is not true that all guitars with a black label had a “Squier Series” label in the first place. Most guitars with the black label featured tuners and bridges of decent quality as well as 3-ply pickguards. These guitars did not have the additional “Squier Series” label and were called the “Traditional Series”, which was stated nowhere on the headstock but the guitars were listed, advertised and sold as such.

The “Traditional Series” can be considered the slightly better but the “Squier Series” sure is the more obscure. At the end of the day, there really is not that much difference between the two. The most significant difference can be found on the Telecaster. The Telecaster from the “Traditional Series” had the traditional through-body stringing, while the Telecasters from the “Squier Series” were Top Loaders with different bridges, saddles and no string holes in the back.

The guitars from that very “Squier Series” are official and genuine Fender guitars like any mexican made Fender guitar regardless, and if you have a mexican made Fender Telecaster, Stratocaster or Precision Bass with a black label and a serial number beginning with MN3, MN4, MN5, MN6, MN7 or MN8, you have a genuine Fender guitar – with or without a small “Squier Series” label.'

[houseguitarshop]

pesky has got it covered.

[woolbrig]

So I guess the answer is it's a Fender.

[zag1]

Good stuff to know. Now, what's the deal on the "Gold" labels? I thought I knew about these, but I may be wrong. Maybe you guys got some answers. My baby here has a MN8 serial number. Those aren't the original tuning machines by the way.

[Teleblooz]

Excellent info, Pesky - thanks!

I acquired a Squier Series black label Tele neck a couple of years ago, which I used to build my partscaster Tele. Note also that it had no "skunk stripe" on the back, neither did it have the black plastic sleeve at the truss rod adjustment hole. In all other respects, a fine exemplar of a Tele neck - nothing felt "cheap" about it.

A previous owner had sanded off the "Squier Series" decal (and the serial number) but it was still faintly visible (though not legible - I didn't realize what it was until later). Being ignorant of the Squier Series, I had a suspicion that the Fender decal was a fake. It made me uncomfortable enough that I eventually sanded it off. Of course shortly thereafter I found out the story of its origins and had a "D'oh!" moment.

[66musicmaster]

Nothing wrong with the black label Fenders, I suppose. I just bought a 95/6 and other than needing a few upgrades to suit me, it's fine. Mine has no "Squier Series", but has the cheap tuners, ceramic pups, and small pots. 3 ply thin pg. Plays great. Looks great. Does not sound as good to me as my CV, but it didn't cost as much either....

Not bad and at the end of the day, it does have the F word on the headstock, if you can live with the S word on there too.

I'd buy another if the price were right and it felt good.

Randy

[Papa Joe]

Then this looks like a deal..right?
http://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/msg/1948146275.html

[softwarejanitor]

Originally Posted by Papa Joe

Then this looks like a deal..right?
http://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/msg/1948146275.html

Yep, you could probably get close to $300 for it down here in Austin if you carefully sanded off the "Squier Series".

[Papa Joe]

Well I can't sand anything off to try to fool anyone..I still shave most every day..I need to respect the man that's lookin' back at me...
Might jump on that axe though,dunno..

[peskypesky]

Originally Posted by Papa Joe

Then this looks like a deal..right?
http://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/msg/1948146275.html

oh hell yeah!! that's a deal!!!

[AllroyPA]

Originally Posted by peskypesky

You might have heard of mexican made Fender guitars with a black headstock decal, made Fender guitar regardless, and if you have a mexican made Fender Telecaster, Stratocaster or Precision Bass with a black label and a serial number beginning with MN3, MN4, MN5, MN6, MN7 or MN8, you have a genuine Fender guitar – with or without a small “Squier Series” label.'

Somone wrote, "this is my findings" ... I never bought it.
I still think alot of this is BS because all these were the first CNC machining done by fender so they're all machine made, not Fender American ... this whole deal about the Black lable ones is a whisper down the lane.....
I have one it's nice, but it's not Fender USA ... anyone know when the date of the fire was?

[grumpy old git]

I found similar info to pesky when I researched mine, and I understood that the Mexican factory had no machinery at the time, so the necks / bodies were shipped across and assembled. My MIM has Squier stamped in the neck pocket, and I've wondered if this was from when they were originally selected (or rejected) from the main Fender production.

During the I search also found this, which if the poster really IS Keith Brawley, ex Fender VP, should be a pretty definitive answer.

It starts about 5 posts down

Should Squier exist?

[AllroyPA]

Originally Posted by grumpy old git

My MIM has Squier stamped in the neck pocket, and I've wondered if this was from when they were originally selected (or rejected) from the main Fender production.

Mine also has a stamp, my serial is MN6* stamp is May '97 or something like that, so I believe this is stamped on assembly date, not pre-prodution. It's you MIM's birthday

[zag1]

Originally Posted by grumpy old git

I found similar info to pesky when I researched mine, and I understood that the Mexican factory had no machinery at the time, so the necks / bodies were shipped across and assembled. My MIM has Squier stamped in the neck pocket, and I've wondered if this was from when they were originally selected (or rejected) from the main Fender production.

During the I search also found this, which if the poster really IS Keith Brawley, ex Fender VP, should be a pretty definitive answer.

It starts about 5 posts down

Should Squier exist?

Thanks much!

[woolbrig]

Originally Posted by grumpy old git

I found similar info to pesky when I researched mine, and I understood that the Mexican factory had no machinery at the time, so the necks / bodies were shipped across and assembled. My MIM has Squier stamped in the neck pocket, and I've wondered if this was from when they were originally selected (or rejected) from the main Fender production.

During the I search also found this, which if the poster really IS Keith Brawley, ex Fender VP, should be a pretty definitive answer.

It starts about 5 posts down

Should Squier exist?

I found that one too. That entire thread is good reading.

[claude]

where did you see these guitars i want to buy one

used to have one mn4

sold it

with regrets

[AllroyPA]

Originally Posted by claude

where did you see these guitars i want to buy one
used to have one mn4
sold it
with regrets

Your MN4*-serial was not dissimilar to these guitars. They were all CNC machine designed. If you really want to treat yourself get an E-series Japanese-made Squier, just sayin'

[S. Rock]

Originally Posted by peskypesky

found this too:

You might have heard of mexican made Fender guitars with a black headstock decal, sometimes associated with some mystery Squier Series made in Mexico. It’s true that there actually was a “Squier Series” that was made by Fender in Mexico and featured a black decal on the headstock, but not all mexican made Fender guitars with such a black label were part of that very “Squier Series”. Since there appears to be a lot of confusion and half-knowledge about these guitars out there, I decided to do some research on my own.

The black label was used by Fender Mexico for a limited time only between 1993 and 1998. It can be found exclusively on the rather short lived mexican “Traditional” and “Squier” series for the Telecaster, Stratocaster and Precision Bass. Usually, Squier is to Fender what Epiphone is to Gibson. In this very case, the use of the name “Squier” had nothing to do with the actual Squier brand, as the series was named “Squier Series”, but it was by all means a Fender series, not a Squier series. The keyword is “series”, not “Squier”. The regular mexican “Standard” series was available too at the time, but it already featured the same silver-ish logo that is still used for it today. However, between 1993 and 1998, both labels (the black AND the silver-ish one) were used for mexican made Fender guitars, but for (slightly) different guitars.

The guitars with the black label consisted mostly of overstock american made Fender necks and bodies. The parts were shipped to Mexico for assembly with mexican made pickups and far eastern hardware and electronics. The overall quality of these guitars turned out to be below the Squiers made in Japan and Korea, whose production came to an end around the time the mexican made guitars with the black label surfaced, yet above Squiers made in China and Indonesia, whose production had not yet begun at the time. The guitars ended up on the american and european market for just about as much as a guitar from the regular “Standard” series would cost at the time.

Some (not all!) of the guitars were sold for a few bucks less as they came with 1-ply pickguards and hardware of slightly lesser quality. Those guitars (and those only!) had an additional smaller “Squier Series” label on front of the headstock, right were the artist models have the artist’s signature. Though some owners probably sanded off their “Squier Series” label, it is not true that all guitars with a black label had a “Squier Series” label in the first place. Most guitars with the black label featured tuners and bridges of decent quality as well as 3-ply pickguards. These guitars did not have the additional “Squier Series” label and were called the “Traditional Series”, which was stated nowhere on the headstock but the guitars were listed, advertised and sold as such.

The “Traditional Series” can be considered the slightly better but the “Squier Series” sure is the more obscure. At the end of the day, there really is not that much difference between the two. The most significant difference can be found on the Telecaster. The Telecaster from the “Traditional Series” had the traditional through-body stringing, while the Telecasters from the “Squier Series” were Top Loaders with different bridges, saddles and no string holes in the back.

The guitars from that very “Squier Series” are official and genuine Fender guitars like any mexican made Fender guitar regardless, and if you have a mexican made Fender Telecaster, Stratocaster or Precision Bass with a black label and a serial number beginning with MN3, MN4, MN5, MN6, MN7 or MN8, you have a genuine Fender guitar – with or without a small “Squier Series” label.'

ok, now I'm confused. I have a MN3(MIM '93). the large logo says "Squier"(black label) and "by Fender" in the ball of the headstock. I've always assumed that it's a Squier, MIM(assembled) with Fender parts and lesser quality electronics. so, where does this Squier "fit" into the scheme of Squiers MIM ?

[jimbojo]

I have an MN5 and I have to say the body is nice looks like Alder, the neck is great, 1 piece maple. I like the single ply guard but the tuners, electronics and bridge are pretty cheap. That being said swapped the tuners out with vintage style Wilkinsons, the pots with CTS, the switch with a grigsby and the pups are seymour duncans, now she is is sweet as can be. So with the initial $165 for the axe, $65 for tuners and electronics, picked up the pups free in a trade, I have about $230 into this guitar and it is way nicer than a standard MIM.

[AllroyPA]

I definitly prefer my 90's MIM over the current lot of MIM's, the increased price over the years just lost the appeal to me.

[little red]

I have 6 strats 2 fenders and 4 squiers my mim is ser mn7 its white alder body maple neck and board is alot lighter than my other strats. it also had cheap tuners and hardware. currently modding with kluson tuners ,gfs vintage solid block trem,roller string trees.and to finish it of a set of tonerider classic blues pups.I have enough money in this thing to by an american but i have one already and this guitar smokes it actually its the best feeling and playing strat i own so i would say congrats you got a beauty.

[66musicmaster]

I just added a set of cheap ($39) used Fender Tex Mex pups to mine and am liking it much more. Also filled in the nicks on back of neck with some testors model car clear paint and sanded them smooth, so it's feeling better everyday. Tuners are still the stockers - someday if they quit working. These are good solid strats and can be quite good, if you take the time to work with them. Mine is vintage white; I put a toro guard on it and it is quite the looker to me. And still a cheap guitar.

Randy

[little red]

Mine is a mn7 with gold label?

[mobaar]

Can anyone here help me with this? The guy selling it is saying this is a MIM "Squier Series" guitar but it is not the black Fender logo and it doesn't say "Squier Series" on the headstock. I'm utterly confused and do not want to find myself on the losing end of this deal. What's the deal, do you ask? My Epi LP Limited (valued ~$300) for the supposed MIM Squier Tele and an entry-level f-style mandolin made by Trinity River ($150 new). Any clues?

[mobaar]

Serial is MN7* by the way.

[AllroyPA]

Originally Posted by mobaar

Serial is MN7* by the way.

Yep, the black label 'Squier Series' stopped in MN*5 the Traditional series continued through MN*6. So this is MIM Squier after those years. I'd say the trade value is no more than $300 in a good condition.

[Viking]

Originally Posted by mobaar

Serial is MN7* by the way.

Looks like it's a Made in Mexico (Squier). I have 2 MIM Squier Stratocasters, they have nice necks and bodies but come with cheap hardware and electronics. Easily upgradable though. Never seen a MIM squier Tele but would love to find one.

From what I've read about the MIM Squiers on the Squier forums they might go for as much as $150 in the states but many people say they have found them in pawn shops or on CL for under $100. I guess it depends on how the guitar feels to you and what shape it's in.

Hope this helps.

[AllroyPA]

Originally Posted by Viking

Looks like it's a Made in Mexico (Squier). I have 2 MIM Squier Stratocasters, they have nice necks and bodies but come with cheap hardware and electronics. Easily upgradable though. Never seen a MIM squier Tele but would love to find one.

From what I've read about the MIM Squiers on the Squier forums they might go for as much as $150 in the states but many people say they have found them in pawn shops or on CL for under $100. I guess it depends on how the guitar feels to you and what shape it's in.
Hope this helps.

True, I'm thinking of MIM Fenders. That guy's trying to take you for a ride, don't trade for it. Trade value is not always purchase value. I'd value my MIM Fender Strat w/ upgrades over 300, but I coulld'nt sell it for that.
Here's one ending in a little over a day http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=270731468432

[Kid Klash]

Originally Posted by softwarejanitor

Yep, you could probably get close to $300 for it down here in Austin if you carefully sanded off the "Squier Series".

I know this is an older thread, but this just popped up on my local CL : http://portland.craigslist.org/wsc/msg/2311231632.html

Nope - not mine (dang!)

[mobaar]

I don't know if it'd be that drastic, it seems like he did some research and came across information that some MN7 Squiers are in fact Squier Series guitars, but I'm talking with him now and I think we're both discovering that this isn't all either of us thought it might be. The odd thing is that it appears to have been upgraded with some aftermarket parts, most notably a Seymour Duncan JB mini humbucker, and also has a 3-ply pickguard. It's truly an odd Frankenmonster, to be sure.

With all that, I think I'll end up passing on the guitar. Too many unknowns. Sigh, Fender company, why must you be so confusing about what is what!?!?!

Thanks for the help, guys. I'm trying to break out of my Epi and into some single coil love, but I'm having the hardest time. What would you trade for this guitar?

[AllroyPA]

Well Squier ... yes , 'Squier Series' was dropped in '95. So the pickguard being 3-ply is no shock to me. Prob is legitimate. Plus how can you find a trade for an Epi that's as hot as the sun! ... hang in there
Trade it for a Classic Vibe. Many will tell you, you wont be disappointed.